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Post by benshelpmeet on Oct 19, 2010 12:44:43 GMT -5
Long before there were Mennonite, Amish or even Charity Christian Fellowship churches, godly christian sisters dressed modestly, and covered their heads for the Lord.
I meet alot of ladies who are interested in the covering, and modest dress.
I see these ladies seeking after Mennonites and Amish type groups, even Charity Christian Fellowship Churches.
Some say their husbands are not really for the covering. Here is an important thought you might consider. He might sense danger, he might see something you are not seeing because of the excitement you are feeling.
We have personally seen alot of good families misguided and deeply discouraged, even destroyed following after these groups.
Do I believe according to scripture that modest dresses (loose fitting, long and flowing), and the covering, is the will of God and a bible teaching? Yes!
I have been searching among the Mennonite, Amish, and Charity groups for 10 years. I have seen and learned a whole lot.
Ladies do not like hearing this, because they feel convicted or at least drawn to modest dress and the covering and their churches do not support this teaching, so they are seeking and with much hope and expectation searching among the Mennonite, Amish and Charity churches trying to find answers and a place to fit in.
Some can conform their doctrinal beliefs to theirs, but many can't, these groups do not want you if you cannot conform. They will give you '' loaves and fishes'' and ''woo you in'' until you show signs of nonconformity.
If you believe in eternal life of the truly born again believer they label you a Calvinist.
If you have grace on previously divorced brethren, they say they are still in the act of adultery and need to divorce the spouse they are with, thus another broken family and marriage.
If you stand on the word of God some Charity churches have liberals who have come among them, and doubt and even stand strongly against the pure preserved word of God (KJV).
Elder selection they do not let God call a man to preach, they have a vote and select a man from among them. If you come into their group and you are called by God to preach the word, they do not acknowledge it, (matter of a fact they are very careful, and watch you like a hawk, and undermine the things you try to show them out of the bible.) If you have a strong stand on an issue and you show them, they set out to disprove you, if they can't disprove you they act like you are being oppressive. The bottom line is they want you to learn from them, but they will not learn what you have to offer.
( you come from a worldly church, you can't possibly teach them anything, and you definitely aren't called of God to preach the word) This is a shame.
One has to conform, and even compromise the scripture to be accepted among them.
We have seen many strong men of God begin to doubt the eternal life of the born again believer, and even his calling from God to preach the gospel.
If you have a conviction on conservative music, alot of Beachy Amish Mennonites and Charity listen to Contemporary Christian music, they convert it to Acapella.  '' Daddy's hands'' ( which is a song ''Dolly Pardon'' is famous for singing... What!  ), Lord I lift your name on high, ''the Kauffman's sing that and others'', The Beachy Amish Mennonites sings, Here I am to worship, and more ... The Bethel Youth sing quite a few beauty songs,( but sang Acapella.  ) This is sad.
We Know Charity and Beachy Amish Mennonite that even have real Country music ring tones on there phones.
And a prominent elder in the Charity Christian Fellowship church that has a CD with a song that has a 50's Doo- Wop theme.
What a downward spiral. Where is the godly stand on music?
If you have strong dress standards on modesty (loose fitting, long and flowing), in the Amish churches we find many with tight fitting, a little on the short side dresses, Mennonite groups do the same (some wear their brothers pants to swim in), plus they wear black socks and their dresses are not very long, when they go to play they take off the black socks exposing their legs ( why wear the socks in the first place?), some (quite a few) Charity sisters wear a little on the short side dresses as well and tight fitting jumpers and cape dresses or vest dresses.
We have seen pictures from ''Youth Bible School'' where the daughters of an Elder there had tight jumper tops where they were not modest at all... ( I would not let my daughter out of the house with clothing that tight, much less let her ware it in the house around her father, brothers and sisters.)
Some sisters shave their legs (what for?) and wear high heels (what for?) and wear slinky form enhancing fabric (what for?) small coverings, where you can hardly tell they're wearing a covering (what for?) Jewelery looking watches (what for?) Contradictions...Confusing. Not much different from our conservative Ind Fund Baptist and other conservative denominations.
For the men I've seen rapping, and pro wrestling beards, shirts unbuttoned a little to far, with no t-shirt underneath, tight fitting pants...more contradictions and confusion.
There are so many contradictions, and alot of confusion. This can be quite discouraging. It can damage your children because they are in the learning what they believe process. Us adults ( most of us know what we believe (though we are open to be taught and learning and growing all the time).
These groups do not win souls, some hand out tracts (this is good), but they do not seek after lost souls, they proselytize already saved members of other churches to join their group. Sheep stealer's they are. This is really bad. We've seen Charity, Mennonite and even some Amish we know go to a Baptist church now and then to reel in some conservatives to themselves.
Mennonite, Amish, and Charity groups are pretty impressive to those of us who come from conservative churches, which really are not conservative at all. We look at these groups and see big conservative families, quiver full (for the most part), wives and mothers in the home (where they belong), conservative dress, strong leader men, hard work (team work families), no public school, herbal remedies, hand made clothing, home cooking, gardening, canning..etc, and most intriguing of all the head covering (which alot do not truly even know why they wear one.)
And then we look at our supposedly conservative, but really liberal churches and we long for a people with our convictions....These Mennonite, Amish or Charity churches must be our people ( like minded believers! ) But after a long arduous search we find out they are not, to those of us who believe in the things I first stated.
What does one do? Pray! I know alot of us do not truly know how to pray, and get ahold of God, and get the mind of God, so we can know what His will is, and what we should do... and we do not have Peace.
I do not have all the answers, but in the last 10 years since our search began I have see in all christian denominations, a stirring in Gods people to draw closer, to learn of God, which has resulted in many women becoming ''dresses only'', and being drawn to ''cover their heads.''
Head covering and modest dress is ''Bible'' it's not Mennonite, Amish or Charity...History and bible teaching prove that.
We need to take our eyes off of these groups, and focus on our inward self, and personal walk with God. We need to become strong within, then God will lead guide and direct our path.
Where do we raise a godly family? God will guide. It's not easy I have to admit, it's lonely. You find yourself constantly searching and visiting churches trying to find a church home for your family...
We have been searching for the past 16 years...6 years before I started covering, my husband was an Ind Fundamental Baptist preacher, we loved God, believed in the KJV being the pure, preserved Word of God, godly right beat music, we were soul winners, modest (dresses only, full ,long and flowing), quiver full, debt free, home school, etc...
No matter what your end time stand, you have to admit times have been changing very fast, not for the good. The world is becoming excessively evil, and blinded ( ''in darkness''..even professing christians are deceived ) The Lords return is approaching faster than ever.
And equally so God is calling out all His children (true believers, truly born again believers) they can't explain what is happening in there spirit, but something (the Holy Spirit of God ) is drawing them against their flesh, and will to God and godly living. There is a moving a stirring among God's people.
Ben and I trust that God will bring believers across our path, those who we can bond with, and worship God with. We have to trust God (have Faith) to send like minded believers our way.
He is drawing believers to live godly in Christ Jesus and live sober minded lives, likewise we must trust, and believe He can, and will draw His people together in like minded groups so they can worship and learn together.
Are Mennonites, Amish and Charity groups bad.. No They just believe a little different ( in some cases alot different.) The body of Christ is not all the same. We have basic, common beliefs:
The Virgin Birth,
The Bible is the Word of God,
The Trinitarian Godhead,
The Deity of Christ,
The Blood Atonement,
The Priesthood of the Believer, etc.
These and other denominations ( but not all in these denominations ) are our saved brethren. Because we have so many differences ( that they cannot accept), we find ourselves drawn to God and godly living, but unable to find fellowship among these groups.
This is hard on us, but were not alone. Don't despair brethren, don't feel you have to run to these groups where your not going to be excepted in the long run unless you compromise your convictions and biblical beliefs.
The groups I have mentioned are oft time Pharisaical (when you come among them they call you a seeker...( not brethren ), they call you English, they do not let you join with their churches until they (observe your family for awhile), they are a prideful people ( they come from a long line of Anabaptist, ''godly line of people''... ''you come from the world'', (even if your family was a christian family..compared to '' their families'', ''your family is worldly'' ), they are unable to minister to sinners in the world (how on earth do they win lost and dying souls to Christ?... ''they don't!'') They leave that to us ''worldly christians.'' Shameful!
Christ was the friend of publicans and sinners, He had the ability to minister to them, and not conform to their ways. We must witness to the lost and dying world.
We get our strength from studying the Word of God, and commitment and devotion to God, and the teachings in the Word of God, and from fellowship with other like minded believers.
Our time on this earth is short, we must not get side tracked, and put lost souls on the back burner... while we run off with the Mennonites, Amish , and Charity Churches. Yes we can learn alot from these people sewing, gardening, canning, how to be a good wife or'' husband or leader of the home'' etc.. but we must not leave the truths the Lord has already taught us.
Our Christianity and beliefs are valid, and real, and we are apart of the body of Christ.
Lovingly, ~ sister Darlene ~
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raine
New Member
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Post by raine on Oct 19, 2010 17:07:45 GMT -5
Thanks for posting this, Sister Darlene. I wonder if part of it isn't also fear that they will be judged among Baptist and other more mainstream churches because of the covering, but feel like it's easier to blend in or conform in these other churches where the doctrinal differences will not be so visible.
My husband and I were members of an IFB church when I first started covering, and was the only woman there who covered. There were no problems, but I did feel awkward and out of place at times. When my husband & I stopped attended, for other reasons, I did start looking into some of the Anabaptist and Charity type churches, and attended a Beachy church a time or two. I could never see joining because of major differences in belief (both in church polity & in their beliefs about salvation), but I could see how someone who hasn't really thought much about their theology could be swayed.
I have been out of church for a while now, but have recently found a blog created by the new pastor of our old church, and it seems like he has taken it in a different direction. He is not teaching the things my husband was against under the old pastor, and holds to a slightly different type of theology altogether, so I asked my husband if it would be ok to visit there and see what it was like now. I've really felt like I need to get back "in church" lately, and my husband did say to re-visit the old church first, so it looks like that may work out.a
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Post by Brother Randy on Oct 20, 2010 7:22:15 GMT -5
Sister Darlene, thank you so much for sharing these thoughts
I can relate very much to a lot of what you have said here. Even thou I consider myself an Anabaptist and have been going to a good Mennonite church for the past 11 years we will never really be one of them. Mainly because of D&R . I have seen a lot of what you are saying here to be true. But because of the way most IFB churches are today I just can never see my family going back to one. Even in our church I have seen things creeping in that in another 10 or 20 years it makes me wonder just what stand the church will really take on things.
What are we to do? Walk as close to the Lord as we can , fellowship with those we can, lead our families in the ways of the Lord, keep our eyes on the Lord, and not look to other groups for all the answers. It is a hard and at times a very lonely road to travels , but we don't do it alone. Praise God.
Bro Randy
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Post by George on Oct 20, 2010 15:57:47 GMT -5
Sister Darlene, first of all it certainly is good to see you so active on the boards again. You have been a good friend and Sister to me and I am certain you are an inspiration to others.
As I read this over and then over again I began to ponder on it. Let me say that I am not casting aspersions nor do I attempt to be judgmental. What I am wondering, considering the background of the statement and the fact we have had quite a few discussions here on this subject, is whether or not this is a means of "fitting in?" By fitting in I mean to say that it appears most that fall into the category mentioned above are attending such churches because of the fact they can not find others in the Baptist and other Churches who cover. To me it is perfectly acceptable to attend such a Church if it is done out of conviction and for spiritual reasons.
The thing that caused me to wonder is if it is possible some may have gone in this manner because they can not find another Church in which the women cover and so they take the stance of "Let's look for a covering Church." You have already mentioned the fact a lot of people have been led down the wrong paths by these Churches and their man-made doctrine and Church polity. It is similar to what one is exposed to when reading. I know of a lot of people who have been led astray by John Piper. He comes across as and is presented as a very godly man with a lot of good things to say. However if one takes what Mr. Piper has to say at face value they may be surprised by what they find out one day when they take time to search our truth if they ever get to that point.
My own dear Mother has some rather strange ideas because of her age and what she learned while growing up. Mom is 92 years old now. My sister is aware of these things but takes the attitude that since Mom is so old she is not going to change. I find that difficult to accept for the simple reason that I was 56-years old when I was saved and that is supposed to be beyond the "window" of salvation. Just the other day Mom and I were talking and she said "One of these days we will know the truth." That one really set me back! I told her that we have the truth now if we take the time to study it. She asked how that could be and I reminded her that our Lord and Saviour, Jesus Christ said, "I am the way, the TRUTH and the life." (Emphasis mine.) I told her that if she truly believes that Jesus is the Saviour then we have to accept as fact that every single word in the King James Bible is not only the Truth, it is the absolute truth.
Do you think that perhaps some of the ones mentioned in this thread will take time one of these days to ferret out the Truth of the Bible and learn that a lot of what they accept as truth and fact is actually the words of men?
Ah, I do ramble and wander. Perhaps it is because the Lord raised me from the depths of despair to New Life that I will accept no other thing as Fact. (Psalm 40:1-3) In fact when I was married recently my new wife and I did some counseling with our Pastor. Pastor told her that she had to understand that with me things are black and white and not shades of gray. He told her that she had to understand completely that to me if it is in the Bible it is true and if it is not in the Bible it is actually a waste of my time.
In Christ,
your friend and Brother in the Lord,
George
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Post by George on Oct 20, 2010 16:00:17 GMT -5
Brother Randy, it is good to 'see' you. Thank you for sharing those heart-felt words. There certainly is a lot of truth in what you have to say.
In Christ,
George
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Post by George on Oct 20, 2010 16:13:43 GMT -5
Therein lies a very major problem Sister. These days unless a man has a piece of paper from some Bible college or seminary or something of that nature it is almost impossible for him to become a Pastor. Then we must look at the sources of those pieces of paper. Many what used to be our best Bible colleges have gotten more and more liberal and more and more away from the Word of God. The men generally considered for the position of Pastor usually have one of those pieces of paper from one or another of those schools.
The problem then becomes the teacher more so than what is taught although there is a lot taught these days that is not correct. In order for the sheep to know how to pray they must have a leader that can teach them. In order for the sheep to learn the Bible they must have a teacher who can pass it along to them. We are greatly lacking in such men these days.
If one takes the time to go back and look at history it is rather easy to see that some of the greatest preachers, teachers, evangelists and other such leaders have not graduated from any kind of Bible college of seminary. They are self-taught and rely on the Bible and the Lord for their source of Truth.
In my short time as a Christian I have met many men who are completely capable and in my view qualified to preach, teach and pastor yet they are left out in the cold for lack of a piece of paper. How sad things have become.
In Christ,
George
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Post by benshelpmeet on Oct 21, 2010 12:07:29 GMT -5
Dear sister Raine,
I will pray that your church has made a change for the good and that yall will enjoy going back to your old church and that you will be blessed there and that yall will be a blessing to others.
Bro Randy,
I'm glad you have found a good church to raise your family in, but it is sad that you will never be truly one of them, that is one thing that is very important to us among many other things.
We have alot of dear Mennonite, Amish and Charity friends, Charity and some Mennonites call us brethren, but not the Amish. Even though they call us brethren they do not treat us as equals, they act like we have alot to learn, even if we have stronger convictions, and lifestyle then they do. We all have so much yet to learn and so much room for growth. We are all equal in the fact that we're born again believers ( brethren) and we are all toward the Lord and learning and growing in our walk. In the churches we have visited and been apart of there is this air of them thinking they are better than those that come in among them....we call it the '' I see'' attitude. I know there are good groups out there we have just not found one and it's too late now to look because the Lord clearly told us to settle down here in Middle Tn. So we wait... God is faithful, He will meet our need. Right now he has freed us up to minister to our sweet and very needy people here in our country church and we are glad though still longing for like minded fellowship. But as you said we're not alone. 
It was good hearing from you. I hope your wife and precious little miracle child is doing well. I love telling others about your daughters testimony. What a mighty God we serve. Is your wifes health doing good? I hope so. Blessings to all of you and your church family brother.
Brother George,
I enjoy posting but oft times my mind is so busy with other things I can hardly collect my thoughts. Lately it's just been flowing out all organized, so I guess the Lord wants me posting for now. I go through seasons. Quote:As I read this over and then over again I began to ponder on it. Let me say that I am not casting aspersions nor do I attempt to be judgmental. What I am wondering, considering the background of the statement and the fact we have had quite a few discussions here on this subject, is whether or not this is a means of "fitting in?" By fitting in I mean to say that it appears most that fall into the category mentioned above are attending such churches because of the fact they can not find others in the Baptist and other Churches who cover. To me it is perfectly acceptable to attend such a Church if it is done out of conviction and for spiritual reasons. I think alot of sisters want a place to fit in, it's our human nature to want to fit in and not stir up trouble, and boy does the covering and a godly lifestyle stir up trouble.
For alot of us we need a church where we can raise our families and a church where we can go that does not do or say things against our conscience. Like for instance wrong beat music, or a pastor saying things about sports, movies, slang words, dating, etc...these things do not build up or edify the body of Christ.
Alot of times carnally minded preachers and churches are a burden to those of us who are seeking God with our whole heart and trying to rid the world and it's ungodly influence from our lives.
I posted this yesterday, and it sums up what I'm trying to say here.coveredbaptists.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=general&action=display&thread=3513Quote: Do you think that perhaps some of the ones mentioned in this thread will take time one of these days to ferret out the Truth of the Bible and learn that a lot of what they accept as truth and fact is actually the words of men? Please expound for me.
I am glad the Lord saved you brother George at age 56...Prase God! He redeemed you and your life. Amen. He came to set the captives free and he can bring back the years the locust have eaten and use your past for good. What a mighty God we serve.
I believe that God can work in a 92 year old womans heart. She can have Gods light (truth ) shed upon her heart and receive and believe. I've see Gods light shine into elderly peoples heart before and them change. God is all Powerful there is nothing God cannot do. I will pray. I am glad you are there for your mom to be a strong witness for Christ in her life.
I see things black and white too. Sometimes it is frustrating to me, but that's the way I am, the way God made me..for a reason, His purpose.Quote:In my short time as a Christian I have met many men who are completely capable and in my view qualified to preach, teach and pastor yet they are left out in the cold for lack of a piece of paper. How sad things have become.Brother George, if a man is called by God to preach His word he should not worry what man says, he should not let man dictate what he can and cannot do. He should obey God and not man, and go forth and preach the word, even pastor without fear, boldly proclaiming what God has told him to preach.
The middle verse in the KJV, inspired, inerrant, pure, preserved Word of God states.Psalm 118:8 It is better to trust in the LORD than to put confidence in man. Religion, and what others think, hold alot of people back from doing what the Lord would have them do.
The one thing I know is if God is burning in the heart of a man and he is truly called of God to preach, he will come to the point where nothing or no one will hold him down or back from doing what God has told him to do.
~ sister Darlene ~
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Post by Sister Penny on Oct 22, 2010 12:22:17 GMT -5
Dear Brothers and Sisters in the Lord,
Yesterday, I was approached by a nice lady, about my age, she asked me if I were Amish, I said no, just a "Plain Christian" she was a new baby Christian and had many questions, so I was able to witness to the best of my ability about why I wore plain clothing and a head covering, I wore my hanging veil. I don't ever profess to be associated with any "group" just plain, fundamentalist Born Again Christian.
Love in Him,
Sister Penny
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Post by benshelpmeet on Oct 26, 2010 9:55:06 GMT -5
I know just what your talking about, alot of people come up and say....
If you don't mind me asking...are yall Amish or Mennonite? We smile and sweetly reply no we are just christians. They look at us puzzled and say, ''christian?'' We tell them our doctrine is baptistic, but we do have similarities to the Mennonites in that... we do not have a TV or watch Movies, we believe in having as many children as God sends us, we believe in being debt free, we believe in the wife being a keeper at home ( not working outside the home), Modesty : (No make up, hair do's, jewelery, costly array, etc..), and the head covering, even modesty in men, we garden, can, make homemade food, sew dresses, no public school (we home school), family integrated church, we have many similarities except our doctrine differs (we consider ourselves Baptist in doctrine. )
Baptist and other denominations use to practice all the things I just mentioned. Society has changed, Culture has changed, Gods people have changed for the worse.
True christians are hungry for a place, and a people to call our church home. In an effort to find a place where we can worship with like minded believers we go from church to church ( the Ind Fund Baptist would label us church hoppers) Intimidation tactics to keep the people in a box and under control. The best thing that ever happened to us spiritually was when we stepped out of our Ind Fund Baptist box, and started learning of God. We were not being taught the practical, nor the deep spiritual things of God just the how to's of keeping the machine (church) running. We were starving, and hungry for more in our christian walk.
Once a liberal professors wife in our Baptist Bible Collage (there were not many liberals,) most were staunch fundamentalist, well she told me her husband was teaching (at there church) on the attributes of God, I told her I did not know what that was, and I wish I could learn...I was so hungry!
We knew to be faithful to church, be faithful to win souls, read our bible through in a year, and daily, tithe, give our 5th pay checks, give to faith promise, back the preacher, and the church, BE FAITHFUL to all the services...(don't call in sick..walk in sick.  ...not funny) We were good doctrinal baptist and faithful to the cause, but we were so hungry for more. God delivered us from that box.
So now these precious christians delivered from there denominational boxes find some old fashioned truth which most believed in times past ( the Amish and Mennonites still hold on to alot of good truths...''though they too are in a denominational box, that they too need to be delivered of'', not the truths that they've held on to that we seek, but their doctrinal error and pride. ) and they set out to find a group of believers they can church with that believe in the truths they practice, because they can no longer church with their familiar group, because they have been delivered from the box, and are no longer welcomed among the group they have served so well for so many years, furthermore they do not feel comfortable raising a family in this group, because their eyes have been opened and their hearts changed to compromise in the church.
Where does one go? What does one do? All I can say is pray...learn how to pray, and pray hard, and often for the Lord to lead you across the path of sweet like minded believers and in time we believe God will raise up like minded churches for those of us He has called out.
He has called us out, separated us apart from that which we were familiar with, that which we loved so much, and have called home for so long, now He is chipping away rough edges, wrong teachings, wrong thinking and attitudes, He is refining us in the fire, it hurts it's painful, we squirm, but for some unexplained reason we do not desire to go back to what we had before, we enjoy the changes the Master is making in our lives, for some strange reason we deeply desire for Him to continue to make more changes, to chip away more rough edges, to refine us in this fire to become all He wants us to be. And we must trust that when He is ready, when the timing is right He will plug us in with other like minded Christians.
For over ten years we have seen the Lord stirring His children to live godly lives for Him, He's drawing His people waking them up from all denominations. He's calling out a people and sanctifying their hearts to walk with Him, and live for Him, and win others to Him in these last days.
We must not get side tracked, or discouraged, we must stay focused, it's not all about us, and our lives, our interests. It's about a lost and dying world around us, we must strengthen our walk that we might lead others to the Saviour.
Is it our job to lead them to the Saviour, or is it our job to lead them to head covering, and modesty? Well the Mennonites and Amish try to lead people to their image ( head covering, and their style dress, plus the rest they believe).
We are to lead the lost to Christ He will make the needed changes. Change is often slow ( I look at my own life 10 years ago..20 years ago) but you can see the Lord at work in the lives of truly born again christians. It's a beautiful thing. It's the work of the Lord, not of man. If man changes man... it is not lasting, but if God changes man... it is lasting. We want to see God do a work.
Pray brethren... Pray God will send like minded believers your way that you can bond with, and church with, and find fellowship among. Refined believers that have been put through the fire. Some Mennonites and Amish are being put through this fire, they will find they cannot stay among error, and they will find themselves searching for like minded believers to fellowship with.
Some of us have already found a like minded group of believers, and some of us are still searching. Pray for us. Care for us..care that we do not have sweet like minded fellowship like you have found, we are your brethren, your responsibility, we need your faithful prayers on our behalf. Our families are important, our children are important. We need your prayers.
Thoughtfully, ~sister Darlene ~
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Post by SisterNancy on Nov 4, 2010 21:53:10 GMT -5
Amen!
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Post by SisterNancy on Nov 5, 2010 13:52:53 GMT -5
I have been contemplating this since reading it. and I agree with the need for fellowship with like minded Christians, I also agree that Mennonite etc are not like minded. I have felt empty after being in their services for a time. I wanted to "belong" to a group, any group that shared my lifestyle. But, the emptiness for me was a sign that we only shared part of the lifestyle. I missed the Holy Spirit who is so much a part of my life and my lifestyle. I crave fellowship, but so often that fellowship comes up empty even amongst Christians and it is even harder when you have children in the early 20's looking for that fellowship also. especially when your siblings are gone and you alone are at home. I pray for my daughter and others like her. We at least have our husbands, and our children. this time has bonded our family - husband, me, and daughter in ways I can only praise God for! I am sharing from the heart here, not trying to make it all polished etc. so if it does not make sense to some I'm sorry. Take what you like and leave the rest. HUGS |
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Post by benshelpmeet on Nov 12, 2010 11:41:47 GMT -5
Dear sister Nancy, I really enjoyed your thoughtful, heart felt post. You have figured out what I could not put my finger on, what I could not explain. I have felt hurt and confused for some time. It's been a deep heavy burden. We have looked among these groups for fellowship and have not found loving brethren, but strict adherence to Religion, we have found doctrinal bickering among brethren...and there is no room in the Inn. coveredbaptists.proboards.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=prayer&thread=3584&page=2We have been serving at a little country church for the past 8 1/2 months...
Now were back to churching at home, and visiting churches. Home church was exciting when we thought the Lord might send like minded believers our way, but with the economy, and folks not wanting to leave family, friends, homes, and jobs. I get weary hoping for the best.
As for visiting churches that is all we can do,we know that Amish churches around here think they are saved, but they are skeptical about outsiders salvation, the Mennonites in our area are one of two things liberal ( in dress, music, dating) and the other Mennonites in our area are very strict in there ideals, (I was once asked if I feared loosing my salvation and going to hell, I can not understand their reasoning, they take scripture out of context...it's sad. The security of the believer, and the evidence of the Holy Spirit dwelling within , and bringing chastening when needed is a constant comfort, and conformation of salvation to me. Thank You Lord for Salvation Full and Free. Sealed until the day of redemption.Eph 4:30 And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption. sister Nancy said it well....quote: ''I agree with the need for fellowship with like minded Christians, I also agree that Mennonite etc are not like minded. I have felt empty after being in their services for a time.
I wanted to "belong" to a group, any group that shared my lifestyle. But, the emptiness for me was a sign that we only shared part of the lifestyle. I missed the Holy Spirit who is so much a part of my life and my lifestyle. ''Read more: coveredbaptists.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=general&action=display&thread=3576#ixzz154xrl79w That's it! The Holy Spirit is missing. (I believe He is quenched, and in some cases is not there at all ) I have been disappointed for so long with these groups. They seem like our people because they practice right things, but they are dead, they seem to love each other, but not outsiders (other christians who come among them.) At first when outsiders come among them they act sweet and friendly, they give freely and invite you to eat meals with them, and spend long lengths of time with them, even spend the night or a few nights. It is a big difference from the ordinary churches people are involved in, actually it is very sweet and impressive, but they are only observing you they will either receive or reject you...if you conform to their doctrinal beliefs they receive you, but if you hold to the bible teaching of eternal life then they label you Calvinist and you do not fit in, even if you honor God with your life and walk and would love to be apart of their fellowship.
I'm sure there are saved people in these groups, but they quench the Spirit just like the liberal, carnal living saved Baptist. Pharisees and Sadducee's. We can't church with the liberals because they quench the Spirit and ours with their carnal worldly living (we can't raise a family for the Lord there), and we can't church with the Pharisees because they quench the Spirit and ours too, because they are so focused on Religion, Tradition, and themselves and scrutinizing others that they can't see their own need, and the need of others.The lost world around them have no hope, unless they receive Christ and convert to Mennonites.
The Baptist and other liberal, carnal/worldly churches are focused on Religion too, they are caught up and busy with their church programs, busy selfish lifestyles, and the lost are encouraged to come to church and receive Christ and join the worldly church race, the more the merrier. But there is no room for serious minded christians. A christian who is trying to deny worldliness in their life is ridiculed and does not really fit in there either.A quote from a preacher from India in the 1900's " In nature we learn when a bird is caught by a man and lives among man and learns their ways; if he is released and returned to his own they will often kill him, because he has taken upon himself the nature of those who owned him. '' Sundar Singh And so those who are learning the image of Christ cannot be welcomed by those who are still bound to this earth ( the natural man and religion.)
May the Lord raise up godly preachers who will by faith go to towns and start a work for the Lord, a church where christians who want to live vibrant christian lives for the Lord can go. Churches who will reach out to the lost world around them.
We must be in the end times. So many precious christians separating their lives unto God across America are without a church. They try fellowshipping with the Amish and Mennonites and they find they do not fit in, they never really feel apart of the group ( like real brethren) even if they stay among them for years...this is very sad, we get calls and e-mails from brethren like this all the time, it's heart breaking. We have heard of churches in Russia that have both Calvinist and Armenian brethren and they church together in peace because their common bond is Christ and these churches practice modesty and the covering. For the record we are neither Calvinist nor Armenian. We are a balance between the two Basic Bible Believers.
In Christian love, ~ sister Darlene ~ |
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Post by benshelpmeet on Feb 2, 2012 13:46:29 GMT -5
This is a very good topic for those out there feeling compelled to cover and dress modest.
Mennonites, Amish , Old German Baptist Brethren, Church of the Brethren, and Hutterites are all groups here in America who practice the biblical teachings of modesty and the covering.
For many years now at least the past 15 years (or so) the Lord has been calling born again christian women from all the main stream churches (there are too many types of christian churches to number.) The Lord has been convicting sisters to be keepers at home, give their wombs to God, dress modest, cover, home school, to not divorce their husbands, etc.
There are many christians around the world who cover and dress modest. Covering is biblical. The Bible teaches it, and History proves it.
American main stream churches have steadily become very carnal and worldly in practice throwing away Godly living. Immodesty (immodest clothing, cut and styled hair, jewelery, make up, etc ), no covering , wives working instead of being a keeper at home, controlling the womb, and divorce has become common place in the churches.
The Mennonites, Amish , Old German Baptist Brethren, Church of the Brethren, and Hutterites are increasingly becoming more carnally minded and worldly in their practices. Even their dresses are becoming immodest in some groups and their coverings are becoming smaller, they are beginning to leave the safeguards they once had and take on common worldly practices. They are leaving the plain and simple teachings.
We as christians need to be very careful where we seek our example for covering and modest dress , and what Godly christians should do and not do. We need to make sure what these groups practice and teach lines up with bible doctrines and biblical principles. We can learn alot from these people, but we must be very careful to not except their error and imbalance.
When we go among these groups or read their web sites or books, we need to take the good and leave the bad.
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Post by Sister Penny on Feb 2, 2012 15:47:45 GMT -5
I read this again as there has been an ongoing discussion on Facebook as to what a Christian woman should look like..there are many arguments against what is modest and what isn't..to put it simply if you feel it is not right, then don't wear it! I have been of the mindset that if a dress goes above the knee if you bend over to pick up something then its too short for me...
Glad there are so many likeminded convicted folks like us here.
I am truly blessed.
Sister Penny
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Post by benshelpmeet on Feb 3, 2012 12:39:35 GMT -5
quote: I have been of the mindset that if a dress goes above the knee if you bend over to pick up something then its too short for me... Wow! they really don't understand modesty do they? No wonder there is so much discussion on Facebook.Isa 47:2 Take the millstones, and grind meal: uncover thy locks, make bare the leg, uncover the thigh, pass over the rivers. That verse disqualifies a skirt that shows the leg (it calls it making bare the leg.) What kind of woman would dress like this? Surely not a modest, shamefaced, christian lady.
In the times we live in everybody does what is right in their own eyes.Proverbs 30:12 There is a generation that are pure in their own eyes, and yet is not washed from their filthiness. Proverbs 16:2 All the ways of a man are clean in his own eyes; but the LORD weigheth the spirits. Proverbs 21:2 Every way of a man is right in his own eyes: but the LORD pondereth the hearts. Isaiah 5:21 Woe unto them that are wise in their own eyes, and prudent in their own sight! Those who fear the Lord, and serve Him with their whole heart, and seek to do His will, read and study His word and obey the light He gives them, thus being given more light to obey ( this is christian growth and sanctification.)
Others who do what is right in their own eyes are all the time making excuses for what they do, debating what is right and what is wrong, their outward appearance of modesty, and even the covering is confusing to onlookers, even their extended family and friends, and the church they attend are confused causing conflict in that area of their life. They find themselves trying to convince those around them that what they practice is right.
Those that are not worried about what others think, but what God thinks, they try to dress modest (calm colored cloth or design, long, loose, flowing, non form fitting clothing...(for men and women.) They have a calm peace about their clothing (they do not compromise with the styles and fashions of the world, or care about what others think is acceptable) these people are not challenged by others about their clothing, or their covering by onlookers, extended family, friends, or the church they attend. (Because onlookers are confident that they are convinced in their convictions.) Most of the time others look up to them even though they do not understand their convictions, they often ask them in a non debating way , ''why they believe like this.'' This is the perfect opportunity to discuss and not fuss.
It is not a confusing thing to figure out what is modest. Bright eye catching material, or big bright eye catching designs on material is not modest, because it says, '' look at me!'' People often say, '' well plain modest clothing causes people to look at you too...( it draws attention.'') Yes, but what kind of attention does it draw? Well bright flashy material says,'' here I am, don't I look impressive!'' And plain modest clothing says, '' this is a woman who is trying to be modest'', it causes people male and female to search their heart. Two different responses to two different looks.
People have their arguments...Don't listen to them. Go to the word of God and stand on truth.
Modest is calm colored cloth or design that is, long, loose, flowing, and non form fitting...(for men and women.) This is not hard to figure out. The style of dress may vary but the overall modest appearance will be the same.Isa 47:2 Take the millstones, and grind meal: uncover thy locks, make bare the leg, uncover the thigh, pass over the rivers. Uncover thy locks...( hair )
Here is another argument...what type of covering is suppose to be worn? They say,'' well the bible doesn't tell us what type just that were suppose to cover so...everyone to his own preference.'' This is not a true teaching. The bible does tell us, it is a downward hanging (not a cap or bun cover), that covers.
The bible teaches that the head covering is katakalupto to cover wholly,that is, veil: cover, hide. kata: is a preposition that means down ( a covering that hangs down) kalupto :to cover up (literally or figuratively): to cover hid. of course it is to be modest meaning the color and style. Here is another argument...The hair is another confusing topic (or made confusing by those who like to argue). How long is long? Women want so bad to have an excuses to cut and style their hair. So they argue.Long hair is simply as long as the individual woman's hair will grow. That is different for us all. Black women, and women with curly hair cannot grow their hair as long as others, some women might have hormone problems but still long is as long as ones hair will grow. Simple.peribolaion- something thrown around one, that is, a mantle, veil: covering, vesture. Study the meaning of these words out.[/size] The woman's long hair is the natural covering that God gives to woman...it is her glory.[/color] 1Co 11:15 But if a woman have long hair, it is a glory to her: for her hair is given her for a covering. Did you know...Angelic beings hide their glory when they come in the presence of God. That's an interesting fact.
The modest women I know do not ever question or debate what is modest. They are modest. We have had this site for a long time and sisters who want to learn come here with questions and a sweet spirit, but there are those who like to argue, debate, and fuss about what they think the bible is really trying to say, or leave room for. These women do not want to give up their will, and lives to God they want to have some control and say so in the issue. This is sad to me.
The bible speaks clearly, the Lord is not confusing (the Devil is) and His ways are not grievous to us who have a heart who truly wants to obey and be pleasing to the Lord.
I agree with you sister Penny, this is a sweet like minded site, even though we are all at different levels of growth and understanding we all have one thing in common, we love the Lord with our whole heart and want to please Him in all we say and do. And his ways are not grievous to us. Love and prayers, ~ sister Darlene ~ |
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'' Daddy's hands'' ( which is a song ''Dolly Pardon'' is famous for singing... What! 
), Lord I lift your name on high, ''the Kauffman's sing that and others'', The Beachy Amish Mennonites sings, Here I am to worship, and more ... The Bethel Youth sing quite a few beauty songs,( but sang Acapella. 
) This is sad. 
...not funny) We were good doctrinal baptist and faithful to the cause, but we were so hungry for more. God delivered us from that box.