Giving the State jurisdiction over our children?

[Tammy]

Some time ago, my husband and I came across an article written by a man who stated that when his daughter and son-in-law married, they did not obtain a state marriage license. It was mentioned only briefly that one of the ramifications of having a State-sanctioned marriage is that it gives the State jurisdiction over the fruit of the marriage: the children. That sounded alarming.

Today I came across this article, which hubby and I are discussing:
famguardian.org/Subjects/FamilyLaw/Marriage/5ReasonsNoMarrLicense.htm

It has many good points. Read it, and tell me what you think.

[coveredinharmony]

That's really interesting, sister Tammy! I printed it out after reading it, and I am going to squirrel it away in my "Future reference" folder Thank you!

I've thought about not getting a marriage license before, for the same reasoning behind my abstention from voting. He makes a good case in this article to strengthen my conviction against a marriage license. It will be interesting to see what my parents think if the Lord leads me to marry. It'll be enough to see that I'm not wearing a traditional wedding dress (I plan to wear a simple white cape or vest dress, Lord willing) and (gasp) not going to have a wedding ring, but it's my marriage and more importantly the Lord's marriage

Love in Christ,

Little sister Sarah

[Tammy]

He makes a case on the legal front, that entering into a marriage with three parties -- husband, wife, and the State -- gives the State certain rights over the children. But after thinking about that argument, I think the day will come when the gov't will take whatever children and/or property it deems necessary, no matter what is on the books (marriage certificate, or not). Our rights and liberties have been so eroded that even the Constitution is ignored.

However, I think the most important argument is this one:

Marriage was instituted by God, therefore it is a God-given right. According to Scripture, it is to be governed by the family, and the State only has jurisdiction in the cases of divorce or crime.

I mentioned this article to another group, and got several responses. Some of them said, "Render unto Caesar that which is Caesar's..." as if the State has a right to require license to marry. I am dissatisfied with their arguments, but undecided about the whole issue, myself. My husband is leaning toward the no-marriage-license view.

[benshelpmeet]

This is a very interesting and thought provoking topic and article.

This brings a few considerations to my mind....

With or without a marriage licenses or birth certificate, whether you vote or not, even if you do not have a social security number, you are still under their control, as the government changes for the worse, we will all whether licensed or not see their power and intrusion in our lives.

The government can find ways, and does still take authority over your life and your children, if you are living in America or are an American citizen you are under their control.

Mat 22:21 They say unto him, Caesar's. Then saith he unto them, Render therefore unto Caesar the things which are Caesar's; and unto God the things that are God's.

Yes, God ordains marriage and family, but we are to comply with the government as much as we can according to our conscious, they are not asking us to do something against God or the bible. They will control your life whether you get licensed or not.

Why borrow trouble?

If you do not get a marriage licenses, and you do not get your children a birth certificate, the government could say those are not your children and take them away from you, you could go to jail for having children that are not yours.

Also they could say you have to split up, and live in different house because you are not married.

We do have God given rights and we must stand for them, but I do not think this is an area to start a fight with the government, or bring suspicion upon your family, or borrow unneeded trouble.


Just my two cents worth...

~ sister Darlene ~

[Brother Ben]

Well said Darlene.

I had a professor in Bible College who was against government intrusion into Church business. Like most churches, they went down to get the 501 (c) 3 (tax exemption) status. However, instead of simply filling out the form, he took his Sharpie brand marker, crossed out the words "Application for..." and wrote in "Declaration of!" Now, that sounds very John Waynish, but what he did was caused the local authorities to audit his church property status, saw that he had unused property, taxed it, and the fight was on. He had to invest money they did not have at the time to develop the property into a baseball field and picknick area. Now, I'm not trying to discuss whether or not a church should apply for 501 (c) 3 status, but IF you are, shouldn't you just make as little waves as necessary?

Pro 26:17 He that passeth by, [and] meddleth with strife [belonging] not to him, [is like] one that taketh a dog by the ears.

Why get bit?

The advancing nature of social engineering in government (Socialism) is a sign of the convergence under a Federal head and ultimately the convergence under a Global head (antichrist.) these are birth pangs. Be wise.

Pro 17:28 Even a fool, when he holdeth his peace, is counted wise: [and] he that shutteth his lips [is esteemed] a man of understanding.

Pro 1:20 Wisdom crieth without; she uttereth her voice in the streets:
Pro 1:33 But whoso hearkeneth unto me shall dwell safely, and shall be quiet from fear of evil.

Pro 16:7 When a man's ways please the LORD, he maketh even his enemies to be at peace with him.

Rom 12:18 If it be possible, as much as lieth in you, live peaceably with all men.

1Ti 2:1 I exhort therefore, that, first of all, supplications, prayers, intercessions, [and] giving of thanks, be made for all men;
1Ti 2:2 For kings, and [for] all that are in authority; [why?] that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and honesty.
1Ti 2:3 For this [is] good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour;
1Ti 2:4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.


It could be that the wise will be the Nehemiah in the court of the king, the Daniel reading the writing on the wall, or the Joseph interpreting the dream!

[Tammy]

Thanks for your responses!

I think you are right that it is not wise to buy trouble for something that may not be so important, and will only draw unwanted attention. I don't think it would really draw any attention, though, for a couple to quietly marry under the sole authority of their God, speaking their solemn vows to each other before their pastor and a group of family and other believers as witnesses.

The only problem I can foresee might be if something should go wrong in the marriage and one leaves the other, saying they are not legally bound to stay. Each would have to be certain of the other's sincerity and fear of God. But my understanding is that the marriage certificate in a family Bible does hold up in court, and has some legal pull.

The day may come in America when it will be illegal to openly live the Christian life, and believers may once again be forced underground. Should that happen during the lifetimes of my children, I would hope that they could marry the spouse God gives them without a license issued by corrupt government, and without being rebuked that they are not "really" married. Know what I mean?

P.S. Don't worry, we're not going to go out and annul our civil marriage!