Post by Brother Ben on Sept 11, 2008 7:30:30 GMT -5
As some of you know, I no longer hold the pretribulation view of the rapture. There were too many scriptures that indicated otherwise. I am no theologian and leave room to be corrected, but it must also be noted that there is enough mystery about the second coming and it's surrounding events that we had better be ready for whatever the Lord does. Below is a sequence of events that I have put together to the best of my ability at this point. Another important fact that needs to be stated is that the book of Revelation cannot be taken chronologically. Instead it is a record of different views of how and when God is going to bring things to an end, i.e., Seals, Trumpets, and Vials. These tend to overlap if you carefully study their contents.
The phrase, "...the last trump," just kept going through my mind and I began to look at the sequence of events following the seventh trumpet of the Revelation. Let's look again at Pauls last trump, and compare it to Johns last trump.
I Cor 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
1Th 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
1Th 4:17 Then we which are alive [and] remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
Some time around the 3 1/2 year mark we find:
Rev 11:15 ¶ And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become [the kingdoms] of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.
What happens between the sounding of the seventh (last) trump and the beginning of the wrath of God?
It is made clear that we will not receive wrath:
1Th 5:9 For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ
Rev 12:10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.
The way we escape the wrath of God is to be raptured out after the seventh (last) trumpet. It must be understood that wrath is not for believers, but for unbelievers. We have been appointed to obtain salvation instead. The sorrow of tribulation is upon us now, look to the persecuted church of Viet Nam, China, and the Muslim nations.
Rev 14:14 ¶ And I looked, and behold a white cloud, and upon the cloud [one] sat like unto the Son of man, having on his head a golden crown, and in his hand a sharp sickle.
Rev 14:15 And another angel came out of the temple, crying with a loud voice to him that sat on the cloud, Thrust in thy sickle, and reap: for the time is come for thee to reap; for the harvest of the earth is ripe.
Rev 14:16 And he that sat on the cloud thrust in his sickle on the earth; and the earth was reaped.
Does this match what Paul said?
1Th 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
1Th 4:17 Then we which are alive [and] remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
And what of those left behind:
Rev 14:17 ¶ And another angel came out of the temple which is in heaven, he also having a sharp sickle.
Rev 14:18 And another angel came out from the altar, which had power over fire; and cried with a loud cry to him that had the sharp sickle, saying, Thrust in thy sharp sickle, and gather the clusters of the vine of the earth; for her grapes are fully ripe.
Rev 14:19 And the angel thrust in his sickle into the earth, and gathered the vine of the earth, and cast [it] into the great winepress of the wrath of God.
Rev 14:20 And the winepress was trodden without the city, and blood came out of the winepress, even unto the horse bridles, by the space of a thousand [and] six hundred furlongs.
1Th 5:9 For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,
Though God hasn't apponted us to wrath, those left behind will go through all of it. We know the Jews will be providentially protected.
Rev 12:6 And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred [and] threescore days. (That 3 1/2 years according to the Jewish 360 day annual cycle.)
And why did the rapture happen at this time? Arn't some Jews still going to be saved?
Rom 11:25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
At this point the last Gentile convert has come to the Lord and it is time for God to deal specifically with Israel.
Rom 11:26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
Just some scripture references for thought.
Bro. Ben
The phrase, "...the last trump," just kept going through my mind and I began to look at the sequence of events following the seventh trumpet of the Revelation. Let's look again at Pauls last trump, and compare it to Johns last trump.
I Cor 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
1Th 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
1Th 4:17 Then we which are alive [and] remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
Some time around the 3 1/2 year mark we find:
Rev 11:15 ¶ And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become [the kingdoms] of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.
What happens between the sounding of the seventh (last) trump and the beginning of the wrath of God?
It is made clear that we will not receive wrath:
1Th 5:9 For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ
Rev 12:10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.
The way we escape the wrath of God is to be raptured out after the seventh (last) trumpet. It must be understood that wrath is not for believers, but for unbelievers. We have been appointed to obtain salvation instead. The sorrow of tribulation is upon us now, look to the persecuted church of Viet Nam, China, and the Muslim nations.
Rev 14:14 ¶ And I looked, and behold a white cloud, and upon the cloud [one] sat like unto the Son of man, having on his head a golden crown, and in his hand a sharp sickle.
Rev 14:15 And another angel came out of the temple, crying with a loud voice to him that sat on the cloud, Thrust in thy sickle, and reap: for the time is come for thee to reap; for the harvest of the earth is ripe.
Rev 14:16 And he that sat on the cloud thrust in his sickle on the earth; and the earth was reaped.
Does this match what Paul said?
1Th 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
1Th 4:17 Then we which are alive [and] remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
And what of those left behind:
Rev 14:17 ¶ And another angel came out of the temple which is in heaven, he also having a sharp sickle.
Rev 14:18 And another angel came out from the altar, which had power over fire; and cried with a loud cry to him that had the sharp sickle, saying, Thrust in thy sharp sickle, and gather the clusters of the vine of the earth; for her grapes are fully ripe.
Rev 14:19 And the angel thrust in his sickle into the earth, and gathered the vine of the earth, and cast [it] into the great winepress of the wrath of God.
Rev 14:20 And the winepress was trodden without the city, and blood came out of the winepress, even unto the horse bridles, by the space of a thousand [and] six hundred furlongs.
1Th 5:9 For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,
Though God hasn't apponted us to wrath, those left behind will go through all of it. We know the Jews will be providentially protected.
Rev 12:6 And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred [and] threescore days. (That 3 1/2 years according to the Jewish 360 day annual cycle.)
And why did the rapture happen at this time? Arn't some Jews still going to be saved?
Rom 11:25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
At this point the last Gentile convert has come to the Lord and it is time for God to deal specifically with Israel.
Rom 11:26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
Just some scripture references for thought.
Bro. Ben