savation

[maggie]

i am now attending a freewill baptist church they teach you cannot lose your salvation, but should you turn from the Lord and start to live a sinful and worldly life and die in this state, without repentance you will go to hell.
i have some mixed emotions about this because i consider them sweet wonderful people but worldly.
when i began to be drawn by the Holy Spirit, and read the word, i was alone and prayed and i was washed by the word and cleansed i have no doupt at all that Jesus saved me that day, ive because of peer and family pressure ignored convictions and reasoned it out in my mind, but i know when i am in Gods will. His love for me has always been great its my love for him that has grown with time. i dont know i think truely born again christians do know to whom they belong. my problem is with those who teach that aprayer said saved them and then they go about partaking of the table of devils and expect to also sit at the Lords table. i may "slip" now and then but i could not stand the thought of grieving or hurting my love, my Savior

[renakay]

There is none I have ever known that are without sin. Other than Jesus. Salvation isn't offered to us because we deserve it. That is why it is called the grace of God. Undeserved favor.
Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Tit 3:5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

If we cannot obtain salvation by doing good works. How can we lose salvation by doing sinful works?

There is none that can say they are without sin before or after salvation. The law was not given as a set of rules we have to follow to earn Brownie points with God. Without faith it is impossible to please God. There are many that live by good works, but are without faith. The law was given to bring us to Christ. It show us that we can't measure up. We have to have him. If you took God's righteousness and put it on a scale, and then took the most Godly man in the world and put his good deeds on the same scale. The righteousness of the man wouldn't even register on the scale of God. I weigh quite a bit but if I went to a truck stop and tried to weight on the scales they weigh those diesel trucks on, my weight wouldn't even register...and no matter how much fat I tried to pile on my body, I would die before I could even get close to the weight to measure on a truck scale. That is why God said, Without FAITH it is IMPOSSIBLE. There is no amount of our own righteousness that we can add to meet what we need to obtain salvation for ourselves. That is what makes it impossible. That is why it took Jesus Christ. God in the flesh. A perfect sacrifice to save those who believe. Just because I sin doesn't mean I quit believing. It means I have fallen. But I get back up because of Christ living in me. Not because I have the strength. Will I fall again, and again? Of course, because I still have this old flesh.

Pr 24:16 For a just man falleth seven times, and riseth up again: but the wicked shall fall into mischief.

If a man falleth and never gets back up, it isn't because that he lost his salvation. He never had it to begin with. If Christ really moves into your heart when you are saved, is it not him that will sustain that salvation?

Ps 55:22 Cast thy burden upon the LORD, and he shall sustain thee: he shall never suffer the righteous to be moved.

That is saying that He will never cause the righteous to fall.

10:28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
Joh 10:29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.

No man!!!!!

I still live in the flesh, but I have to die daily to self. Not because I may obtain works of righteousness to go to heaven, but that I may show my God that I love him. He has given me power to overcome sin. Sin has already been defeated. If it had not been defeated yet, there would still be nothing we could do of ourselves to do so.
Ga 2:20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

Anyway. I know there are more and more scripture you help you....it is almost 11pm and my brain isn't working correctly. I would suggest you study the book of Romans. It explains God grace and sin and so on. When you are saved you are justified. Just as if I'd never sinned. If you lose salvation in Christ then that means you are bound to keep the law, a prisoner of sin , which Romans 6 and 7 speak against, therefore none of us can have hope. Christ death would be in vain.

Hope this helps,


Sister Rena Kay

[Brother Ben]

Maggie said:

i am now attending a freewill baptist church they teach you cannot lose your salvation, but should you turn from the Lord and start to live a sinful and worldly life and die in this state, without repentance you will go to hell.

My way of seeing this scenario would be as follows, if a man turned from the Lord and started (key word,) to live a sinful and worldly life and die, I would not draw the conclusion he would go to hell. Here is why. Let's put the emphasis on the fact that he WAS in the way of the Lord, but in immaturity, he began compromising the truth a doing sinful and worldly things. John said this:

1Jo 3:7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.

1Jo 3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.

1Jo 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

The bold part of verse 8 is in direct correlation with the bold in verse 9. One that committeth sin is one who does this as a continuous, unrepented, unchanged, state of life. This is not the careless, carnal, or immature sinner, this is the continuous, bold, come-what-may sinner.

If someone becomes careless in their walk and they die, the Lord is going to look not so much of the "act," but at the foundational root. Namely,

1Jo 3:7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.

This verse should be tied directly to the following:

Jhn 10:27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:

If someone is committing the act of sin when they die, that does not immediately mean that they are not one of God's sheep, THOUGH THEY ARE IN DISOBEDIENCE. The Lord's sheep hear his voice. This is evidenced by their turn in repentance in time.

If, however, someone, turns from the way of the Lord, never to return, this has serious implication regarding the root of their foundation. If they do not hear the Shepherd's voice, then they are in danger of hell.

The original statement, sister maggie shared, is common of Arminian thought. It is somewhat of a "holy hammer" to threaten the believer into repentance. What is desperately needed in modern Christendom is a serious case of introspection. Peter so carefully outlined it for us:

2Pe 1:5 ¶ And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge;

2Pe 1:6 And to knowledge temperance; and to temperance patience; and to patience godliness;

2Pe 1:7 And to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness charity.

2Pe 1:8 For if these things be in you, and abound, they make [you that ye shall] neither [be] barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.

2Pe 1:9 But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins.

2Pe 1:10 Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:

Many today are lazy when it comes to "adding" the things so essential to the Christian life. Notice, he said, if someone fails to continually be diligent in adding these things to their Christian life, they forget that they were purged, but if they "will" be diligent, they will never fall (into careless sin.)

Then he finishes off with the call to make our calling and election sure. Only we can see if we have that most important foundational root, being, salvation IN CHRIST JESUS.

If we have the real thing, we will hear the Shepherds voice because we are known of him, and we will be found following him. In the event we stray from the fold, he will diligently search for us. If he does not...danger!

Believer, is the Shepherd calling you? Can you hear his voice?

It is sweet when we can say "to" our Beloved:

Sgs 2:14 O my dove, [that art] in the clefts of the rock, in the secret [places] of the stairs, let me see thy countenance, let me hear thy voice; for sweet [is] thy voice, and thy countenance [is] comely.

[renakay]

I agree, and it is so sad that the false doctrine that is so strong in our society is teaching that it is okay to stay the way you are. I truly believe that if you are truly saved, you are saved forever. Like you said. Those who do stray, as sheep often do, when they hear the voice of the shepherd they hearken unto his voice. We are weak in the flesh and so we need his daily word in our hearts to keep from sinning against God. The bible says in Romans 6: 1 ¶ What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?
There is a difference between sinning and Living in sin. The saved human will sin, but someone who has not put faith in God and what Jesus did for us, they will live in sin.

Ro 2:28 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:
Ro 2:29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

The heart is circumcised...When a boy child is circumcised, does that flesh grow back? No...if it did then the circumcision would be in vain.

Ro 3:1 What advantage then hath the Jew? or what profit is there of circumcision?
Ro 3:30 Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith.
Ro 4:9 Cometh this blessedness then upon the circumcision only, or upon the uncircumcision also? for we say that faith was reckoned to Abraham for righteousness.
Ro 4:10 How was it then reckoned? when he was in circumcision, or in uncircumcision? Not in circumcision, but in uncircumcision.
Ro 4:11 And he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had yet being uncircumcised: that he might be the father of all them that believe, though they be not circumcised; that righteousness might be imputed unto them also:
Ro 4:12 And the father of circumcision to them who are not of the circumcision only, but who also walk in the steps of that faith of our father Abraham, which he had being yet uncircumcised.
Ro 15:8 Now I say that Jesus Christ was a minister of the circumcision for the truth of God, to confirm the promises made unto the fathers:


I love God's word...He didn't leave any room for doubt.



Christian is not a name tag...it's a price tag.

[benshelpmeet]

That was so well said! I enjoyed reading this thread today. What a wonderful topic to discuss.

Blessings!, ~ sister Darlene ~

[maggie]

thank you so much each of you i am studying romans right now.the verses you have given me to study and pray over are appreciated. i wanted to say thanks i will probly have more questions later!