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Post by Guadalupe on Aug 11, 2012 7:47:51 GMT -5
So when people are sending warning signals out about this sect, I want to know what the facts are because I don't want to be part of something that is falling away. I believe you are misreading: there are no warning signals and no one mentioned "sect" here. I simply state facts that all fellowships change somewhat as they grow in the Word. Just as Bro. Ben mentioned he has grown in his position on the millenialisms, so too will any fellowship change and grow as they dig deeply into the Word. There are many couples who stand firm in their faith and raise their children without having access to a fellowship. If you have found one that helps in that regard, I would consider that a blessing. The fact that the group you found and like is willing to let you participate even if you cannot receive communion seems like a true blessing. Not receiving communion can be hard but it can also be a reminder to be humble too. Humility is the foundation of all Christian virtues and imitates Christ's attitude during His earthly ministry. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 11, 2012 8:34:30 GMT -5
Guadalupe,
Sorry, but I can't yet still do the "quote" but I must have worded poorly, no one said "sect" but myself and I used that word in the meaning " of a group of believers that have majority in common"... Not in a negative way.
I agree about fellowship, but it's not the communion, or not being allowed to take communion with my fellow Mennonite brothers and sisters that causes a problem with us, but the fact that I am married to my teenage sweetheart but it our second marriage, We didn't marry when we were younger, and they believe ( and you may too) that a second marriage is a sin and we need to separate in order to be right with God and to go to heaven... Seeing we are married and have a child we are habitual sinners until we separate....
So while we can visit and they would be nice, we would be outcasts and not invited into full fellowship, they will teach their children that we are sinners and that they can play with my son but "not get too close"..... This is not what we want in Christian fellowship.
If you wander how I know this.... it is because In another state, Florida, I attended a sister church to this group... and made good friends with two woman who are related to most this group and they Told me that though they will be kind and friendly, the bonds can not be close and children will be lead that way as a precaution.
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Post by mrjob on Aug 11, 2012 11:05:09 GMT -5
Hello: The Bread and Wine (or grape juice) are powerful symbols with great Christian history but they are just that. They are symbols. They have no power in and of them selves. The power comes from the reflection we do before we partake of them but we really partake in the body and blood of Christ when we participate in the Church. The KJV uses the word communion but that word today has come mean the ceremony that happens at scheduled times that vary from one congregation to the next. I think the NIV does a better job in its translation of this verse.
1 Cor 10:16
16 Is not the cup of thanksgiving for which we give thanks a participation in the blood of Christ? And is not the bread that we break a participation in the body of Christ?
(NIV)
Here is another verse where the cup symbolizes partaking or participating in something that we do or is done rather than something we consume.
Matt 20:22 But Jesus answered and said, Ye know not what ye ask. Are ye able to drink of the cup that I shall drink of, and to be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with? They say unto him, We are able. (KJV)
The reason I say this is because even if they don't let you drink their wine and eat their bread you are still partaking in the body and blood of Christ by your participation in their congregation. This is hard I know. I know. I am in a similar situation myself. The longer you are there setting the good example in word and deed the longer they will have to justify their denying communion to you. Your patience, perseverance and continued love will be a wittiness to them and they will know "this treasure in jars of clay to shows that this all-surpassing power is from God and not from us."
2 Cor 4:7 paraphrased.
Brother Ben where can I find the info about Menno Simmons allowing a deserted believer remarrying in the faith?
James
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Post by Guadalupe on Aug 11, 2012 16:03:40 GMT -5
The KJV uses the word communion but that word today has come mean the ceremony that happens at scheduled times that vary from one congregation to the next. I think the NIV does a better job in its translation of this verse. This is a KJV site mrjob. The NIV is loaded with translation errors. Go back to the Greek and Hebrew for a true understanding of the word "communion". Use the King James and the Strong's Concordance together for a better understanding of the original meanings in the Scriptures. You are missing a great deal of the true meanings of Jesus' words. Perhaps this is why you think the Bible is about social justice instead personal conversion. |
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Post by mrjob on Aug 11, 2012 18:09:33 GMT -5
Hello, Guadalupe:
I have several copies of the King James that are wide margin and the margins are filled with study notes from years of study. I have spent a great deal of time in the Strong's Concordance as well a the Englishman's concordance. It is linked to the Strong's numbering system. I know this is a KJV site and I try to use it when I am here because I don't want to offend anyone that is here. You know as well as I that neither Jesus or any of the authors of the Bible spoke 16th century English. The King James Version is called the Authorized Version because it was authorized by King James and it did not threaten his sovereignty. It is a very political book and that is not a bad thing in my opinion. The KJV was revolutionary for its time because it made the scriptures available to the people in their own language. The Greek and Latin scholars could no longer stand between God and man. The King James Version in my personal experience has been used by "clergy" to protect a hierarchy of church government that just isn't in the scriptures. Then they use that to say that house churches are wrong. For instance the King James translates 13 different Greek words with different meanings into the single English word "ordain" There are 4 different words 1 Hebrew and 3 Greek with at least 3 different meanings that are translated "hell". This is according to Strong's Dictionary which you cited.
Since 1611 The King James been revised its self several times chiefly in 1769 and 1881.
For me I am not threatened by newer translation because God told Daniel "But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased." Daniel 12:4 (KJV) I see some modern translations (but not all) and corresponding historical and archeological finds as a fulfilling of this prophecy. It is ironic that the KJV only movement of today is acting like the Catholic Church did when Tyndall and Wycliffe tried to make their early English translations back in the middle ages.
One questions please. For non-English speaking brethren are their corresponding 17th century versions they can turn to in their own languages like French, Spanish or Swahili or would they have to rely on a more modern translation? Just wondering
James
PS I will do another study on the word "communion" as you suggested.
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mjr
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Post by mjr on Aug 11, 2012 19:12:02 GMT -5
Welcome Paula!
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Post by Guadalupe on Aug 11, 2012 22:32:15 GMT -5
mrjob, as Bro. Ben has admonished you, this is a KJV site. That does not mean he is threatened by other translations as you sarcastically state. It means that the KJV has the most accurate morphological and syntactical translation correlative to the original Greek, Hebrew and Aramaic; a translation structure that is carefully preserved as much as possible when placed in the vernacular of other languages.
You once again drag other translations into the discussion when admonished they are not accepted here. Your persistence in doing so is offensive especially when you denigrate those who hold these views concerning the KJV. We are not threatened when we refuse to be taunted by someone who is obviously not as deeply immersed in the correct translation as he implies. If you cannot remain in the KJV, if you cannot accept the correct teachings of the Bible, you will not be comfortable in discussion here. Neither will we accept your taunts regarding the KJV.
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Post by mrjob on Aug 11, 2012 23:22:31 GMT -5
Dear sister Guadeloupe: I am sorry. I was not trying to offend or taunt anyone. When I quoted the NIV earlier I was only doing it to try to encourage our sister to not grow weary in well doing. The facts that I offered in regards to the KJV were in no way meant to denigrate it. I still think in my mind in King James English and I have to look up verses in the KJV concordance before I can find them in another version.
Please do not be offended by my words. That was not my intent. I appreciate your post because no one would ever accuse you of being "lukewarm" and since iron sharpens iron I value your input greatly.
This will be my last post on this thread as we/I have gotten off topic for which I apologize.
Take care and may God bless your studies and fellowship.
James
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Post by Deleted on Aug 12, 2012 7:58:18 GMT -5
Well on another topic, the minister from that Sylva church that you gave me, Guadalupe, came to my house last night.... We went back and forth via e-mail, then at the grocery store in town ( about 45 min. away) I ran into his wife.... LOl I saw a lady with a head covering, so I approached her... turns out....LOL It was a nice visit, their son is a few months older then ours so they had fun too. We discussed Baptism and the Eucharist and it was eye opening.. Any how, they are nearly 70 miles away, but do desire for us to visit, but they do hold to our marriage as being a sin and think it bore biblical to separate  But I do think they would be less judgmental and more open to true fellowship than the Mennonites and we will seriously consider attending. Thank you |
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Post by Brother Ben on Aug 13, 2012 8:28:05 GMT -5
Since 1611 The King James been revised its self several times chiefly in 1769 and 1881. This has been addressed man times, but for the record, the "revision" done in 1769, which was one of several between then and 1611, were corrections in spelling and font, never changes in the content of the work. The 1881 is not a work based on severely flawed manuscripts, Vaticanus and Sinaticus. They differed 3,000 times in the four Gospels alone. They have glaring omissions and changes. Wescott and Hort strongly leaned toward the Catholic church, Mary, and it's corrupt doctrines. The Revised Version is the base for ALL modern translations. Even the (so-called) "NEW" KJV, is a hybrid of good and bad, Textus Receptus, and the corrupt Vatricanus and Sinaticus. You been misinformed. For me I am not threatened by newer translation because God told Daniel "But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased." (KJV) I see some modern translations (but not all) and corresponding historical and archeological finds as a fulfilling of this prophecy. Simply untrue. God does not need "modern" translations to clarify his word. It does not need to be re translated, it needs to be re-read. Furthermore, we are not threatened by new translations, but only to the extent that I know to keep my distance from a snake. It is ironic that the KJV only movement of today is acting like the Catholic Church did when Tyndall and Wycliffe tried to make their early English translations back in the middle ages. This is very flawed also. You obviously support the modern and liberally slanted attack against God's pure word in support of these corrupted versions. So, those who stand for the "pure line" of manuscripts, which Tyndale did and he went to the stake for it, are ridiculed for it. KJV only folks are not going to burn heretics at the stake. Let's make clear who did what. One questions please. For non-English speaking brethren are their corresponding 17th century versions they can turn to in their own languages like French, Spanish or Swahili or would they have to rely on a more modern translation? Just wondering The matter is not the 17th century, it is the pure line that came down through the Textus Receptus. Our version for the English speaking is the KJV. Other translation works have been done for the different language groups around the globe and they are still going on today. Be advised. You need to read and respect our forum rules. |
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Post by Guadalupe on Aug 13, 2012 14:54:43 GMT -5
Well on another topic, the minister from that Sylva church that you gave me, Guadalupe, came to my house last night.... We went back and forth via e-mail, then at the grocery store in town ( about 45 min. away) I ran into his wife.... LOl I saw a lady with a head covering, so I approached her... turns out....LOL It was a nice visit, their son is a few months older then ours so they had fun too. We discussed Baptism and the Eucharist and it was eye opening.. Any how, they are nearly 70 miles away, but do desire for us to visit, but they do hold to our marriage as being a sin and think it bore biblical to separate But I do think they would be less judgmental and more open to true fellowship than the Mennonites and we will seriously consider attending. Thank you It sounds as though the Holy Spirit is teaching you and directing you. Keeping you in prayer for finding fellowship. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 13, 2012 17:06:33 GMT -5
Thank you, please do....So we can make the right choice
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Post by Brother Ben on Aug 14, 2012 13:18:52 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Aug 14, 2012 22:36:36 GMT -5
14 August 2012
Hi Paula,
I Am new here too. I have been reading as much as time will allow...
May the LORD be with you and all those who desire to walk with God in the "True Light" of His Holy Word!
Sincerely,
C. Read
The wife of a very brave soldier!
"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God.
All things were made by Him; and without Him was not any thing made that was made.
In Him was life; and the life was the light of men. And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.
There was a man sent from God, whose name was John. The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all men through him might believe.
He was not that Light, but was sent to bear witness of that Light. That was the True Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world.
He was in the world, and the world was made by Him, and the world knew Him not. He came unto His own, and His own received Him not.
But as many as received Him, to them gave He power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on His name: Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.
And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth."
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Post by Deleted on Aug 14, 2012 22:50:07 GMT -5
PS. In regard to my post above, the Scripture reference is from the book of John chapter 1 verses one through fourteen). When I typed out the actual reference such as ( ) the program deletes it for some reason.  PSS. I had typed the reference in the parenthesis note above, but when I post the reply it deletes the actual Bible Reference. I would like to note that when I look at it in preview it shows up in red, but after I post my reply it is gone??? Maybe someone can help me? I Am sorry if this is a bit off topic, but is anyone else having this problem? |
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