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Post by jka on Nov 29, 2006 10:07:40 GMT -5
Ok I might be seen as kooky now, but I believe in a geocentric universe meaning that the earth, not the sun, is the centre. The science works out the same for both and the thing is that the Bible has 67 passages that say that the sun revolves around the earth and not the other way around. My husband is still looking into it. He is afraid that our children will be seen as uneducated if we teach them the geocentric position. My idea was to teach them the correct position (geocentricsm) and then also teach them heliocentriscm as what the "world" believes and tell them it is wrong. What would you do and are any of you in the same boat?
Katy-Anne
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Post by Tammy on Apr 2, 2007 14:38:24 GMT -5
Hello Katy Anne, Well, I saw that no one had responded to your post, so I thought I would. If your husband is hesitant about the geocentric theory, you should definitely not teach his children the idea, stating that heliocentricism is wrong (which is to say, Your Daddy is wrong). If this were an issue that would make a difference in eternity, it might be worth your time and energy to try to persuade your husband that you are right, but I really think you will just annoy him and confuse the children. These kinds of questions only "gender strife" in your home. Not worth it Love in Christ, Tammy
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Post by mom2fourblessings on Apr 3, 2007 6:13:38 GMT -5
I would agree with Tammy here. There are a few things similar that my dh and I have not agreed on.. but I respect his wishes.. Usually though he tells me to teach them both views, and say this is what some think, this is what others think, this is what I think, and give them the facts or books to back up each theory.. Like in your case, give them the information that people on the heliocentriscm side use, and then give them the information from your side and your scriptures.. If it is ok with your husband that is.. that way they can make an educated decision when they are older and they have the facts from both sides.. I am not up on this subject and never really thought about it much, so I don't have an opinion one way or the other.. However, this can also (with your husband's support) be a good teaching tool, to show them that even though you and he may not believe the exact same thing about that.. That you do believe the same thing about Jesus, there is no other way..etc.. and also you can teach them and show them how two people who may not agree can still love each other and get along, and you can teach them about headship order and submission.. that this is what Daddy wants you to learn and he makes the decision for our family.. etc.. that this is what he believes.. also, that Daddy could very well be right, and mommy wrong or the other way around but in the grand scheme of things it does not really matter.. I hope all that mumble jumble of words makes some kind of sense.. LOL but I think you will figure out what I am trying to say.. If you and your husband agree you could use this disagreement to teach them so many other things.. Know what I mean.. and to teach them both sides of that subject also.. and teach them how some things like the love of Christ, the plan of Salvation, Heaven and Hell, are certain, and understandable and explained in GREAT detail in the Bible, but that some things, are not exactly clear all the time.. but that in the eternal plan, it does not matter what we believe UNLESS it begins to affect what we believe about Christ and what he did for us.. Just my .02 cents and it ain't worth that.. Love in Christ Sister Heather
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Post by coveredwife on Apr 4, 2007 14:16:52 GMT -5
my opinion on the matter is teach your child both views as to educate them on the differences in worldly beliefs and spiritual beliefs. In Our home we are teaching our oldest about the theory of evolution only because these are how the schools teach them. We have told her we do not believe that the earth is millions of years old but only a few thousand and we believe in creation because it is what the bible teaches us is the truth. This all started with some books she brought home from the library on whales. Supposedly the whale was millions of years old, started out as a sea creature and then a land creature and then eventually returned to the sea. She has taken the oppertunity not only to learn more about scientific views, and biblical truths, but she is using this as a way to tell her friends about Christ. I feel blessed to have 3 children so in love with God. How many families have to say grace at the table 3 times before they can eat. They fight over who can pray and when. Every moment of every day is a moment to teach your children about the great things God has done, is doing and will continue to do everyday
Guess i went on a little to much but i felt moved sorry
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Post by George on Apr 4, 2007 16:00:44 GMT -5
Please forgive me but I disagree absolutely with this approach. My goodness! In the first place it says to teach things that are apparently not of the Bible in the first position because of the fact it then says to teach them the scriptures. That is so wrong!
Our only purpose here on this earth is to serve God. This being in the position of a servant is a privilege. It is not a right or a guarantee. We are gifted to serve. The gifts of the Holy Spirit as outlined in Romans 12 and 1 Corinthians 12 are not for our benefit but to benefit God!
Teaching anything that is not based on the Bible is completely wrong. It is not serving God nor do I believe it to be pleasing to Him. If a child comes home with some hogwash they have been introduced to in the public schools or by their friends then we can show them in the Bible where it is wrong and not teach them the wrong ourselves. Believe me, introducing them to it in our homes on no matter how minor a basis is teaching them. The mind becomes conformed to what it is faced with.
Is this heliocentrism thing, whatever it is, going to help us to serve God? If it is not in the Bible it will not.
Not only that but how on earth can it be justified to children that mommy and daddy have contention between them even in the area of their beliefs? I do not understand that.
(Amo 3:3) Can two walk together, except they be agreed?
My word, two cannot walk together if they are not agreed. Take a little time and do some research on this verse. It is speaking not only of our relationship with God and us walking with Him but also of our relationship with each other. This verse is telling us that we cannot have communion with God unless we are agreed.
In Christ, George
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Post by mom2fourblessings on Apr 4, 2007 19:14:02 GMT -5
Brother George, The only reason I say to teach both sides is so that your children are equipped when people bring up other sides to defend their faith and to teach others about the truth. If you do not know what the other side believes, or have no proof it is wrong (because you don't know what it is) then you can't very well prove why you are right.. Not saying that God has to be proved, but just like creation v/s evolution. .. if you don't know the scientific facts, v/s theory, etc.. then you can't very well support your view. I know people who can back up anything with Scripture, and use the same scripture to back up completely opposite points.. Know what I mean.. and if you don't know where you stand, if you are not reading and studying yourself you can be swayed the wrong way very easily. That is why we MUST, MUST, MUST teach the children what the enemy is going to try to tell them, and we MUST, MUST, MUST teach them why it is wrong and do that with SCRIPTURES from GOD"S WORD so that they are equipped to face the world and all it's evils with God's Word hidden in their hearts.... Does not military find out all they can about the enemy before invading, isn't it true that businesses research the market before putting out new products.. Why then shouldn't Christians know WHAT the enemy is teaching and why it is wrong, so that they don't fall for every whim and doctrine that comes along.. I say this as a child who was not told the who's and why's we believed what we did and why the other theories were wrong.. and for many MANY years I went along with many different doctrines, could not support what I believed, so I fell for other beliefs.. Including but not limited to: wicca the "as long as we all believe in something" new age movements beliefs of many denominations trying to combine creation and evolution saying things like well the Bible doesn't say exactly HOW the earth was created.. maybe GOD did do it over several millions of years, and cause it to evolve to what it is today.. Yes I believed God created it.. but I was a Biology major, so what they were teaching me made sense also.. had I had a better grounding in the Bible, and not just hey we go to church every time the doors are open, but had my parents taught me at home about the things I would be confronted with and the reasons why those things were not and could not be true.. MAYBE I would not have fallen for every whim that came my way that sounded like it made good sense.. I know I have rambled on, but I do not see that it can be harmful to know the truth and to also know what is false and most importantly WHY it is false.. I hope that all makes sense, and I hope I don't sound harsh or argumentative.. that is not what I mean.. I am just trying to clarify what I said and why.. I can honestly see your point.. maybe it is just one of those things we will have to agree to disagree on.. LOL but hey, when we all get to Heaven what a day of rejoicing that will be.. and then all of this will be of no relevance.. By the way, how are you doing.. you are daily in our prayers.. In Christ's Love, Sister Heather
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Post by George on Apr 4, 2007 19:38:33 GMT -5
Sister Heather, again, I whole heartedly disagree with that approach. I do not intend to argue but to stand on God's Holy Word. As a very conservative fundamental Baptist I believe the Bible to be the SOLE authority for both faith and practice. Practice means the way I live. All that is necessary to teach is that the Bible is the absolute Truth. If anything is in contradiction with the Bible it is not Truth. That is it, plain and simple.
God gives us each day. God gives us all we have. I do not believe that teaching children things other than those godly is the proper thing to do. Let me explain something to you. I have personal experience in this area. I used to be a church-going youngster. I was introduced to evolution and things of that nature in school. I gradually became to the point I was a devout atheist. It took me almost losing my life at my own hands to come back to God.
If I would have had a Bible-believing, Bible-teaching family to tell me these things were wrong perhaps I would not have gone where I did. Teaching those things in the home is not conducive to increasing our love relationship with God. It serves no good purpose. Those things I believe, and as I said I shall stand on the Bible.
(Php 4:8) Finally, brethren, whatsoever things are true, whatsoever things are honest, whatsoever things are just, whatsoever things are pure, whatsoever things are lovely, whatsoever things are of good report; if there be any virtue, and if there be any praise, think on these things. (Php 4:9) Those things, which ye have both learned, and received, and heard, and seen in me, do: and the God of peace shall be with you.
Amen!
In Christ, George
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Post by sarah123 on Apr 13, 2007 14:07:03 GMT -5
I agree with George one hundred percent! Teach a child truth; truth, truth, truth.... when a child has been filled with the truth of the Word of God they will recognize lies very quickly. God uses His Word and the teaching of His Word to instill in the heart of a child a desire and appetite for Him. "Taste and see the Lord is good, blessed is the man that trusteth in Him." One way a bank teller learns to recognize a counterfeit bill is to handle only the real thing for a while... then when the fake money comes in they can almost always tell the difference. It's very much the same with children when it comes to teaching the truth. After the children are saturated with the truth of the Word of God, and given a good foundation, than as they become older children they will know and understand when false teaching comes their way. We believe in teaching apologetics to the older children so they can learn to defend what they know and understand, from the Word of God. My two youngest were brought up this way and they have a great zeal for the Lord Jesus Christ... and a pleasure to be around. Being an older women, I would encourage every Wife and Mother to be sure to respect and honor her Husband, this is so important to the very minutest detail! A wife needs to obey her husband, listen to what he says... allow him to be the leader of the home. This strengthens the home and protects the wife from her tendencies to be deceived by the lies of satan, just as Eve in the garden was! Let him lead, pray for him to have wisdom and show him allot of love and support! In our Saviour, Sarah P.S. Answers in Genesis is a very good web site for the case of creation if anyone is interested: www.answersingenesis.org/home.asp?aigHomeCountry=United+States&aigEvents=United+States&aigBookstore=United+States
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Post by wife on Dec 21, 2007 10:45:31 GMT -5
I know this is an old thread, but I wanted to chime in on this topic. According to Leviticus 11: 13- 19, the bat is considered a fowl by the Lord. This is the passage that talks about clean and unclean animals, and the bat (v 19) is taken in with all of the birds that are an abomination to eat. So, although many people teach that the bat is a mammal- which according to human classification standards, they are- but we teach the children that the bat is fowl, like the eagle, vulture, raven, etc... However, that being said, we also have told them of how man has "classified" animals and man into categories- and those categories put man in the same class as monkeys, cats and dogs. It really takes the "man has dominion" idea and makes room for " the animals are just like us- therefore man is just an animal" idea (evolution and justification for sin) and makes it believable. I have never considered whether the sun goes around or the earth goes around, but I suppose in teaching the children I have taught it that the sun is stationary. There is a great lesson to be learned her for us though: when we search the scriptures and find the Truth about the universe we live in, we can repent it before the Lord in the seeing eyes of our children and then teach them rightly. On a side note- if you think about it, what person has been out far enough in space to know if the sun moves or the earth? Our vantage point is from the earth or the furthest our- the moon, which moves around the earth. How can someone with one vantage point make a judgment on anything outside of their own ability to see? That would be like Solomon ( 1 Kings 3:16-28) just looking at the two women with the one baby in dispute and judging before having heard both sides. No one can judge without having the facts, and no human can look to see if we move or the sun moves. Only God can see it and if he has told us....then we ought to believe him since he can see it
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Post by divash on Dec 22, 2007 22:31:36 GMT -5
I would be careful to teach the scientifically correct placement of planets around the sun, because we do live in a heliocentric solar system. That is a physical, provable, proven fact.
Then I would be careful to teach them that, whatever the physical reality, the earth is still the spiritual center of our solar system, because life and souls exist here rather than on the sun. I'm pretty sure that's what the Biblical text means when it speaks of the sun revolving around the earth. That is to say, the sun is at the physical center of the solar system, but the earth's status as a home for life makes it the only reason that the sun's existence is of any significance whatsoever. The sun "revolves" around the earth in terms of importance: it serves the needs of the earth's living creatures.
This is the same way that parents' lives revolve around their children. Do parents spend all their time walking in circles around their kids? Of course, not, though the mental image is kind of funny. But in everything they do, they keep in mind the health and well-being of their children (or, at least, they should). They wonder, "Will buying this new car be a way to get to work so we can afford to pay for the children's medical bills, school materials, clothing, and other needs -- or will the cost be too high, thus taking the food right out of their mouths?" Decisions like those, well, that's where parents "revolve" around their children, in the same way that the sun "revolves" around the earth.
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Post by Brother Ben on Dec 23, 2007 14:17:40 GMT -5
Friend Divash, I just want to say, Amen, well put! Science tells us the planets revolve around the sun, but we see it coming up in he East, and setting in the West. In the Book of Ecclesiastes, the Preacher speaks of life as follows: Ecc 9:9 Live joyfully with the wife whom thou lovest all the days of the life of thy vanity, which he hath given thee under the sun, all the days of thy vanity: for that is thy portion in this life, and in thy labour which thou takest under the sun. The sun rises and sets on us as we live our lives. So what is important, the sun as it appears to revolve around us, or life that is lived, for the most part, during the day, under the sun? Bro. Ben
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Post by George on Dec 24, 2007 15:09:07 GMT -5
Friend Divash, you may be correct in your assessment of how the planets and the sun and our solar system operates but you have not knowledge of one very important thing. All of this works because of God.
This heliocentric thing is a product of man's wisdom. Man's wisdom is faulty at best. The Bible tells us that the wisdom of man is foolishness and it will fail.
Have you ever read God's Holy Word, the King James Bible? If not I highly suggest it. Much of what you have stated here on these boards is explained in the most wonderful Book available to mankind.
This morning I was reading in the book of Genesis which is the first book of the Bible. In it we are told that God has placed everything where it is. He placed the sun, He placed the moon, He placed the planets and even the stars. They are all exactly where He wants them to be. You see, this is all about faith. Do we have the faith to believe that God is real, He sent His Son to die for us and the He controls all things? As Christians hopefully we can say yes to those things.
There is no other "religion" on this earth that gives the promises of Christianity. That is because as I once said to you previously, Christianity is not a "religion," it is a relationship. We believe God and we have faith in His promises to us. Buddha, or Krishna or any other false god does not give us the promises we have of the One True God. We know that when we die we are going to heaven to be with God and Jesus Christ for all eternity. Can what you practice give you the same assurance? God cannot lie. His truth is eternal.
The things of man will perish and do perish daily. Let me give you a Bible quote here:
(1Co 13:8) Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away.
(1Co 13:9) For we know in part, and we prophesy in part.
(1Co 13:10) But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.
(1Co 13:11) When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things.
(1Co 13:12) For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.
(1Co 13:13) And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these is charity.
Did you notice the part where it says that whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away? That is speaking of the knowledge of man or science. Our knowledge without God is worthless. The Bible tells us that when that which is perfect shall come then that which is in part shall be done away with. That which is perfect is God's Holy Word, the King James Bible. This passage is not speaking of our Lord and Saviour, Jesus Christ. It does not say when He who is perfect is come. We know He is perfect. This passage speaks of the Holy Bible which is our sole authority for both faith and practice.
I shall pray for you that perhaps by your interaction here on these boards you may find The Lord and accept Him as your personal Saviour. If not I am truly sorry that you look forward to an eternity cast into the lake of fire which is hell.
In Christ, George
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Post by wife on Dec 24, 2007 19:22:29 GMT -5
This is the same way that parents' lives revolve around their children. Do parents spend all their time walking in circles around their kids? Of course, not, though the mental image is kind of funny. But in everything they do, they keep in mind the health and well-being of their children (or, at least, they should). They wonder, "Will buying this new car be a way to get to work so we can afford to pay for the children's medical bills, school materials, clothing, and other needs -- or will the cost be too high, thus taking the food right out of their mouths?" Decisions like those, well, that's where parents "revolve" around their children, in the same way that the sun "revolves" around the earth. Actually our lives are to revolve around the Lord, not our children. As wives, our allegiance is first to the Lord, then our husbands, then to training up our children. They are even brought up to glorify the Lord, not our own training ability. In our particular family, we do not consider our children first when making decisions, such as purchasing a vehicle, etc... We are first and foremost stewards of what the Lord has given us- our children are given to us too, but their souls are so much more than the "things" we are given. While we have a responsibility to train them up in the nurture and admonition of the Lord, in no way shape or form does that entail designer things. We consider if we are glorifying the Lord in our ways- even sometimes if that means that we don't purchase many things for Christmas of birthdays, etc... Actually we feel that the opposite is true- if the money the Lord gives us does the work to bring the Gospel to the world, we can all go without new clothes, cars, etc...
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kscarle
Member
Philippians 4:4, Romans 12:1, John 14:15
Posts: 97
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Post by kscarle on Dec 27, 2007 18:23:57 GMT -5
Bro George Very well said
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Post by divash on Jan 1, 2008 22:13:27 GMT -5
Friend Divash, ... Have you ever read God's Holy Word, the King James Bible? If not I highly suggest it. Much of what you have stated here on these boards is explained in the most wonderful Book available to mankind. Yes, I have read this particular translation of the Christian scriptures. I have also read the Hebrew Bible, in both the English translation and in the original Hebrew, completely through, each and every year. Thanks for asking. We know that when we die we are going to heaven to be with God and Jesus Christ for all eternity. Can what you practice give you the same assurance? As I'm a Jew, my fate is assured. Over and over, the Hebrew Bible assures me that my people's covenant with Hashem (literally, "The Name," which is to say, God) is a covenant "for all time," "for eternity," "for all generations." I'm sure you can cite those exact passages as well as I can; you seem a well-read fellow. "For eternity" and "for all generations," rather than "until I come up with something else." And since I know that, as a believing Christian, you believe every word of the Hebrew Bible, you too know this to be absolute, factual truth. Yes, I'm confident in my fate. May you have peace.
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