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Post by benshelpmeet on Sept 21, 2004 9:35:12 GMT -5
The wrong beat in music has been discussed here lately, here is more information on the wrong beat in music. I'm as southern as you get. I was born in Birmingham Ala, raised in Ala and Georgia. I grew up Southern Baptist. :)I often say Baptist born Baptist bread and when I die I'll be Baptist dead. I grew up watching Hee Haw. Later in my growing up years I listened to Rock, Heavy metal,( Punk, and Rap a little I thought it was goofy though) I've listened to pop, jaz,country,etc. I am a music lover. When the Lord redeemed me and saved my soul He started doing a work in my heart. I come from the pits and when God saved me I gave Him ALL. I can't say I wasn't ever drawn by wrong music that seems so right, because I was. Music seems to draw me, so to speak.( even wrong music sometimes if its pretty and malodious.) But the Lord Jesus Christ who dwells in my eternal soul is so faithful to speak to my heart and draw me away from wrong music, even if it seems so right. Thank you you Lord! With any music we should judge in our soul, does it have a proper beat. How do we know what is a proper beat, well you start recerching what is a proper beat so you will know how to rightly judge the music you listen to. Here is a thought. Your children may hear a subtle beat in your almost conservative music, and when they go through there teen years( where they have there own thoughts and beliefs) satan can use that very BEAT to lure them into wrong beat so called christian music or mabye worse. We lead by EXAMPLE. What are we doing? Do we desire to honor Christ with everything in our lives? We'll all stand before the Almighty God of heaven and earth one day and have to give account for what we do in ALL areas. Do we want to be the very thing satan uses to cause our dear children to stumble in there christian walk? For precious souls, ~ Darlene~ .......................................................................................... The new "Southern gospel" style featured "tag lines in accompanying voices, chromatic lower-neighbor note and passing notes, and in the refrain a walking bass lead with several interjections. The harmony was simple and very rhythmic. A ragtime style was added later to the piano accompaniment (commonly called the 'stomp beat'), which made the sacred and the secular indistinguishable" (H.T. Spence, Confronting Contemporary Christian Music, p. 120). The pioneer of the ragtime gospel piano style was Dwight Brock, who played in one of the Stamps quartets. " Brock played a rhythm piano style; some thought it sounded a little like Dixieland [jazz] or razzamatazz. ... Thousands of pianists would copy his style in the years to come. ... IT WAS REVOLUTIONARY BECAUSE IT JAZZED UP GOSPEL MUSIC JUST ENOUGH FOR THE SECULAR PUBLIC TO CATCH ON. Dwight's nephew, Brock Speer, who sings bass for the Speer Family today, said when his uncle was a boy in the early teens--he was born in 1905--he heard a circus drummer playing syncopated rhythms on snare drums, and said to himself, 'I wonder if I could do that on the piano?'" (The Music Men, pp. 38,39). Though the seeds for these things were present in the 1920s and '30s, it was not until the 1940s that Southern gospel began to promote an entertainment-oriented, jazzed up approach to Christian music on a large scale. Before that the quartets were not very flashy. For example, W.B. Walbert, the manager of the Vaughan Quartet during the 1920s, " was a spiritual man who did not believe that a quartet should do anything showy to detract from the gospel messages in the songs" (The Music Men, p. 33). This attitude did not prevail, though, and even Walbert's own son, James, began playing the piano backwards, playing with his elbows, and otherwise putting on a show to entertain the crowds.Two of the most influential groups in this direction were the Blackwood Brothers and the Statesmen. Prior to this, professional gospel quartets commonly sang without musical accompaniment or with traditional strings. The Ranger Quartet, for example, often sang with a guitar. The Statesmen were one of the first professional quartets to feature the piano; and it was not just ANY piano, it was Hovie Lister's ragtime, honky-tonk piano. Sadly, this style has dominated popular Southern gospel ever since. (This does not mean, of course, that the Statesmen sang ONLY jazzy music. Some of their numbers were nice renditions of good Christian music. An example was the beautiful "What a Savior," featuring lyric tenor Rosie Rozell.) The following brief history of Southern gospel is by a man who researches rock music. He has correctly observed the close connection between jived up Southern gospel of the 1940s and '50s and early rock & roll."The white gospel quartets of the 1950s, when [Elvis] Presley started to study them, were every bit as exciting as their black counterparts, USING SHOW-BIZ HYPE, WHIPPING UP CROWDS AND CREATING STARS. Reporting on an all-night sing in Atlanta, Georgia, for The Saturday Evening Post (June 1956), Furman Bisher compared the audience response to the Oak Ridge Quartet to bobby soxers' swooning for Frank Sinatra. 'Women out there shrieked, and a couple of young girls rushed to the stage edge to snap pictures of the tenor who was holding that high note the way a trumpet player prolongs a "ride,"' wrote Bisher. ..."Presley idolized such gospel stars for the rest of his life. His particular favorites were J.D. Sumner, the tall, stringy bass vocalist with the Blackwood Brothers, who also went to the First Assembly of God Church in Memphis, and Jake Hess and Hovie Lister of the Statesmen Quartet (which actually had five members). An ordained minister, LISTER IS OFTEN CREDITED WITH BRINGING SHOW BUSINESS TO QUARTET SINGING. At the time he said, 'If it takes shaking my hair down, beating a piano like Liberace or Piano Red to keep these young people out of beer joints and the rear seats of cars, I'll do it. The Devil's got his kind of entertainment. We've got ours. They criticize me, say I'm too lively for religion, but I get results. That's what counts'" (emphasis added) (Steve Turner, Hungry for Heaven, pp. 29-31). Lister's philosophy was pragmatism; whatever works is right. This is exactly the same New Evangelical philosophy that permeates the Contemporary Christian Music field today. Hovie Lister and the Statesmen were forerunners to CCM. God has not instructed us to do whatever "gets results," but to obey His Word regardless of the results. The sole authority for faith and practice is the Bible. If it is Scriptural it is right; if it is not Scriptural, it is wrong, regardless of how well it appears to work. God's Word plainly forbids His people to love the world. It is therefore impossible to please God by adapting the things of the world to the service of Christ. Liberace was a homosexual entertainer who helped corrupt the morals of America. I believe it is a serious error to adopt his sensual, worldly ways to Gospel music. Where does God's Word encourage us to copy the world? To be holy, means to be set apart from and different from the world. Nowhere do we see the Lord Jesus Christ or the Apostles entertaining people in the name of the ministry. We do not see them putting on some sort of worldly show to draw a crowd. We do not see them adapting themselves to the spirit of the age. We do not see them attempting to manipulate people by worldly means. The Apostle Paul plainly stated that he depended solely upon the power of the Holy Spirit. "For I determined not to know any thing among you, save Jesus Christ, and him crucified. And I was with you in weakness, and in fear, and in much trembling. And my speech and my preaching was not with enticing words of man's wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power: That your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God" (1 Corinthians 2:2-5). I hope this has been a blessing and a help to someone out there!
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Post by benshelpmeet on Sept 22, 2004 10:25:11 GMT -5
This summer one of our neighbors decided to play there music real loud my little girl came in and said there playing country gospel music! Well come to find out it was country music not gospel at all. Or small children know bad music (wrong beat) when they here it, they just can't tell the differance between what is christian and what is country because the ''Beat'' is the same.
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Post by benshelpmeet on Jun 17, 2005 19:45:01 GMT -5
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Post by George on Oct 17, 2005 12:36:58 GMT -5
At the outset let me "box this out," by saying I am not attempting to say anyone is wrong or question anyone's matters of doctrine or personal conviction. I want to present something that I find rather interesting and somewhat unanswered about this subject. I sincerely believe that if one does or does not do anything out of doctrinal stance or even personal conviction, that same thing must be done equally throughout all aspects of our lives. In other words our stance cannot be "wishy washy" or vary from day to day and situation to situation.
Which brings me to the following... (please understand this is being brought up for input and people's ideas and opinions on the subject), I have seen and heard mention of "the beat" when referring to music many times. Because of that I have a rather interesting personal quandary.
I really enjoy march music. I played in marching bands from he time I was in the third grade. John Phillip Sousa and Henry Fillmore are among my favorite composers.
I have a recording of the United States Marine Corps Band playing the Stars and Stripes Forever. I am here to tell you this recording "gets me going." It rouses the blood, sends goose bumps and chills throughout my body and causes me to want to stand up and salute each time I hear it. It is extremely moving music. It also has no words. It is purely about "the beat" and the feeling of the entire piece. This is just one among many march pieces which is absolutely moving music to me.
So, since this music has no words and is all about the beat is it wrong to listen to it? True it does not glorify or praise The Lord but it is also not ungodly music. If we hold this subject true as either doctrine or personal conviction does that mean we ought not listen to The Star Spangled Banner? I find patriotism to be at a much greater level in the fundamental Churches than any where else I have ever been with the possible exception of the military. Being a Viet Nam Era veteran I can witness to you there is a great deal of patriotism existent in the military.
I have gotten into discussion many times with folks about ungodly music. This question of march music has nagged at me many times. I am of the generation who still thought it the right thing to do to volunteer for the armed forces even though many of my brothers were dying in Viet Nam. I am of the generation that when I hear the band playing, "Hail to the Chief" I stop whatever I am doing out of respect for the President of the United States.
As we are well aware the form of government among man has been established and ordained by God. We are told to respect and obey all of our leaders. I realize there are a lot of corrupt ones among them and also a lot of ungodly leaders in the mix.
This is an interesting quandary to me. Since this music does not specifically glorify or praise God is it not to be listened to? I would welcome peoples thoughts on the subject. If there is sound Biblical reason to not listen to such I will give it up.
Yours in Christ, George
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Post by Brother Ben on Oct 17, 2005 13:07:40 GMT -5
I would look at music from two perspectives: 1. Beat (as you mentioned) 2. Message I am not an authority on this topic, but I've been around long enough to recognize the beat that was brought into the the pop music world and eventually the churches. Pardon any spelling errors here, but there is the basic 4/4 beat which would be best described by some of that march music, you know, left, left, left, right, left (Jordon's Stormy Banks). The down beat is emphasized right up front. The other beat is your typical waltz beat, as in, one, two, three, one, two, three. These are the beats for 99% of the hymns in your hymnbook. When the down beat is extracted from the front and moved back in the tempo, i.e., one, two, three, silent, one, two, three, silent you have the popular syncopated beat seen in rock, rap, jazz, country, etc. This beat was brought into the American music world by the blues/jazz scene in the south (New Orleans, Memphis, etc.) It finds it's roots in tribal music of Africa and other tribal people groups. The folks from Haiti call it the Voodoom where we get our word Voodoo. It is the beat hammered out in pagan worship services to get the Voodoom spirit (a demon,) to come up and jump on one of the participants. Ask the missionaries. As this music (blues/jazz) spread throughout our country, it was worked into the country and pop music of the past. Eventually it found it's way into the "gospel" music of the south, thus Southern Gospel. The Southern country/ swing bands were made up of primarily white people, but they began to minnick the blues boogie woogie tunes of the black music scene. Then in the 1950's a young man, who was hooked on the black (I don't say this with any animocity toward precious black people,) blues music jumped on the scene; his name was Elvis Presley. Soon the white people were coming out all over the place with this type of music. It was only a matter of time that the people in the more fleshy, experiencial churches would use this mode of music and adapt it to a "beaty" gospel alternative. As the hippy movement of the mid to late 60's birthed the "Jesus" movement, rock became infused with the gospel music scene. It has only moved along with the changing shades of the rock music scene. So, now you see these guys like Michael W. Smith, who lot's of people love saying in interviews tha one of his favorite bands still, that influenced his music is the Satanic rock band, Led Zepelin. More later, gotta get back to work!
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Post by benshelpmeet on Oct 18, 2005 9:53:12 GMT -5
Great topic! Preach on... I love when you teach on this topic Bro. Ben.
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Post by benshelpmeet on Oct 24, 2005 10:26:00 GMT -5
more please...... We need this teaching on proper beat in music... Love your wife, sister, and friend, ~ Darlene ~
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Post by pulpiteer on Oct 24, 2005 20:40:52 GMT -5
Ephesians 5:1 Be ye therefore followers of God, as dear children; Eph 5:2 And walk in love, as Christ also hath loved us, and hath given himself for us an offering and a sacrifice to God for a sweetsmelling savour. Eph 5:3 But fornication, and all uncleanness, or covetousness, let it not be once named among you, as becometh saints;Eph 5:4 Neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor jesting, which are not convenient: but rather giving of thanks. Eph 5:5 For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God. Eph 5:6 Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience. Eph 5:7 Be not ye therefore partakers with them. Eph 5:8 For ye were sometimes darkness, but now are ye light in the Lord: walk as children of light: Eph 5:9 (For the fruit of the Spirit is in all goodness and righteousness and truth;) Eph 5:10 Proving what is acceptable unto the Lord. Eph 5:11 And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them. Eph 5:12 For it is a shame even to speak of those things which are done of them in secret. Eph 5:13 But all things that are reproved are made manifest by the light: for whatsoever doth make manifest is light. Eph 5:14 Wherefore he saith, Awake thou that sleepest, and arise from the dead, and Christ shall give thee light. Eph 5:15 See then that ye walk circumspectly, not as fools, but as wise, Eph 5:16 Redeeming the time, because the days are evil. Eph 5:17 Wherefore be ye not unwise, but understanding what the will of the Lord is. Eph 5:18 And be not drunk with wine, wherein is excess; but be filled with the Spirit; Eph 5:19 Speaking to yourselves in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody in your heart to the Lord;Eph 5:20 Giving thanks always for all things unto God and the Father in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ; Eph 5:21 Submitting yourselves one to another in the fear of God.
Rom 14:23 And he that doubteth is damned if he eat, because he eateth not of faith: for whatsoever is not of faith is sin.Rom 15:1 We then that are strong ought to bear the infirmities of the weak, and not to please ourselves.
In our music do we follow Christ? This is not, I believe, an issue of beat, but an issue of following Christ. As a Christian our whole being should be taken up by two things: 1. Love God with all your soul, strength, mind, and spirit. 2. Love thy neighbor as thyself. Paul writes in Romans 14: Rom 14:13 Let us not therefore judge one another any more: but judge this rather, that no man put a stumblingblock or an occasion to fall in his brother's way. 14 I know, and am persuaded by the Lord Jesus, that there is nothing unclean of itself: but to him that esteemeth any thing to be unclean, to him it is unclean. 15 But if thy brother be grieved with thy meat, now walkest thou not charitably. Destroy not him with thy meat, for whom Christ died. 16 Let not then your good be evil spoken of: 17 For the kingdom of God is not meat and drink; but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost. So then is the music I listen to: 1. Glorifying to God. 2. Is it edifying to the Family of God. I may be able to listen to "Southern Gospel" music and be edified, someone else may not, therefore if my music will be a stumblingblock to my brother, and cause him to fall from fellowship, then I will not listen to that music. On the flip side though, I have been to some churches that only sing "Holy, Holy, Holy", and Three-fold Amens, Is God Holy? YES! But that is just one side of Him, that is why He gives us VARIETY in our music before Him. Psalms, hymns and spiritual songs, are three different and distinct, yet totally appropriate and pleasing to God. Does my music glorify God? Does my music edify the Church? Does my music portray a spiritual theme? This last one I believe covers patriotic songs. Long before we had a national anthem, we had hymns, The Battle hymn of the Republic and many others. Does God tell us to give honor to whom honor is due? Yes. Does God tell us to honor the king? Yes. Do we lose focus on the one who gave us music through our music? I leave that question up to the reader to answer.
In Christian love, Brother Brown
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Post by George on Oct 24, 2005 22:39:46 GMT -5
Thank you for that exposition Brother Brown. It is most appreciated.
Yours in Christ, George
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Post by benshelpmeet on Oct 25, 2005 13:27:41 GMT -5
Thank you Bro. Brown,
I would still like Bro Ben to finish his study on the proper beat in music, this is a very important teaching. Though some Soutern Gospel music has moving songs even sometimes with a proper beat, it is still best to be known by children, friends, and peers to not be one who listenes to Southern Gospel music, because of all the many, many other Southern Gospel Songs that have an improper beat, not to mention all the songs that have wrong doctrine.
We often have christians who want to honor God with their life (music ) ask us How can we tell if it has a proper beat or not? Christians are hungry for truth and righteousness, they want to clean up their music. This is something that needs to be taught in our churches, otherwise well meaning christians will just have to judge for themselves not being equipt with the knowledge of what an improper beat sounds like.
sister Darlene ~
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Post by Brother Ben on Oct 25, 2005 20:18:27 GMT -5
For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not. Rom. 7:18
I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin. Rom. 7:25
For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit. Rom. 8:5
So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God. Rom 8:8
Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh. Rom. 8:12
But put ye on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make not provision for the flesh, to [fulfil] the lusts [thereof]. Rom. 13:14
Having therefore these promises, dearly beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God. II Cor. 7:1
Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh? Gal. 3:3
For, brethren, ye have been called unto liberty; only use not liberty for an occasion to the flesh, but by love serve one another. Gal. 5:13
This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh. Gal. 5:16
For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would. Gal. 5:17
Gal 5:19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, Gal 5:20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, Gal 5:21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts. Gal. 5:24
For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting. Gal. 6:8
Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others. Eph. 2:3
Space prohibits me to continue listing the verses advising and warning about the flesh and it's dangers. As I continue with my thoughts on the wrong beat, I am mindful of this thing, that there is "no good thing" about the flesh. I cannot drink whiskey and it be good, but refrain from it to not make weaker brothers stumble, for the very thing that i permit will destroy me. We often let fornication, alcohol, rock music, rap music be definitions of the "evil" thing that ALL christians should abstain from, but when we delve into the very accepted area of Southern Gospel, we begin to find all the "him hawling"
God is not only, not pleased, with the works of the flesh, but goes as far as to say it is characteristic of those who will not inherit the kingdom of God. God in His holiness will never have Psalms, Hymns, and Spiritual Songs, to be done in a fleshly manner.
Today I was driving home from work and I noticed a sign on the front of a church that teaches false doctrine and practices ungodly practices. "Come hear, (unnamed) the Gospel Band during our revival." I know the leader of this band. He goes to a KJV only, independent fundamental, camp meeting shoutin', Amen hollarin', Baptist church in a nearby town. How did he come to the conclusion that it was o.k. to attend this unscriptural church. He was lead there by the same deceptive spirit that is in his Southern Gospel music.
We are not to abstain from "beaty" music ONLY because of our weaker brother, but because IT IS SINFUL! When will we stop making excuses for sin and start calling it what it is? If we are going to excuse one form of "beaty" music, then let's not stand in condemnation when the "Praise Rock" band or the "Jesus Rap" band wants to "Praise the Lord" in their own unique way. Obsurd!
Again, I live minutes outside of Nashville, TN and I see the gross carnality in the churches, some IFB churches. One of the contributing factors...allowing ungodly Southern Gospel music. It is a symptom as well as a cause. It is a symptom because when I hear that kind of music, I know there is something wrong. Sure enough there are violations in dress standards, t.v. watching, other bad music, carnal teens, etc. It is a cause, because the church as learned that the pastor and leaders have put their o.k. on this kind of "alternative" music, so therefore, it must be o.k. to listen to other "alternative" music, or worse yet, attend questionable if not outright wicked shows.
Oh, brethren! We put our families and churches in peril when we start making acceptions in these areas.
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Post by benshelpmeet on Oct 26, 2005 12:09:58 GMT -5
Thank you Bro. Ben. For those out there still wondering about a certian tape or CD you have, a good rule is When in doubt don't! Throw it out. There is plenty of good music out there. I'll start a thread with sites we know of and good music we know of. I hope this study has been helpful to someone.
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Post by pulpiteer on Oct 26, 2005 20:35:20 GMT -5
Amen to when in doubt throw it out for as I mentioned before in Romans 14:23 "And he that doubteth is damned if he eat, because he eateth not of faith: for whatsoever is not of faith is sin." We also must remember that God used many different instruments for praise: Psalm 33:1-2 and sometimes even lots of volume: verse 3. They also had some kind of beat kept perhaps with a tambourine, Psalm 81:2. And cymbals, Psalm 150:5. If you read the whole of Psalm 150 we are also given the Biblical example of dancing, not for fleshly desires, but out of pure exultation to God. I think as modern day Christians we tend to forget just what we are here for. We get very wrapped up in "Issues of the Day" but we fail to see that we are here for God's glory. Now, I am NOT advocating using the devil's means to deliver God's message, for if you will remember it is through "Preaching" that God's message of Salvation be delivered. It is through music that we are to praise God and encourage the Bretheren. We must be careful though, Brothers and Sisters, to make sure our "Good" is not evil spoken of. If we through means of our music cause some to stumble, then we are in sin, by the way if we are the ones stumbling, then we are in sin. In regards to "The Beat" I believe if it is causing more of a "Fleshly feast" , if you are so caught up in it that God is reduced to a "THOOM THOOM BOPPITY BOP" then you are serving the wrong person. We must remember the warning that Paul gave to young Timothy to "Avoid vain and profane babblings." We have no problem, sometimes, recognizing profanity, but empty things are just as dangerous. Brothers and Sisters in Christ, Satan has desired to sift us as wheat. Let us not let him, especially through music.
God bless, Brother Brown
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Post by benshelpmeet on Oct 27, 2005 13:55:52 GMT -5
The wrong beat in music has been discussed here lately, here is more information on the wrong beat in music. I'm as southern as you get. I was born in Birmingham Ala, raised in Ala and Georgia. I grew up Southern Baptist. I often say Baptist born Baptist bread and when I die I'll be Baptist dead. I grew up watching Hee Haw. Later in my growing up years I listened to Rock, Heavy metal,( Punk, and Rap a little I thought it was goofy though) I've listened to pop, jaz,country,etc. I am a music lover. When the Lord redeemed me and saved my soul He started doing a work in my heart. I come from the pits and when God saved me I gave Him ALL. I can't say I wasn't ever drawn by wrong music that seems so right, because I was. Music seems to draw me, so to speak.( even wrong music sometimes if its pretty and malodious.) But the Lord Jesus Christ who dwells in my eternal soul is so faithful to speak to my heart and draw me away from wrong music, even if it seems so right. Thank you you Lord! With any music we should judge in our soul, does it have a proper beat. How do we know what is a proper beat, well you start recerching what is a proper beat so you will know how to rightly judge the music you listen to. Here is a thought. Your children may hear a subtle beat in your almost conservative music, and when they go through there teen years( where they have there own thoughts and beliefs) satan can use that very BEAT to lure them into wrong beat so called christian music or mabye worse. We lead by EXAMPLE. What are we doing? Do we desire to honor Christ with everything in our lives? We'll all stand before the Almighty God of heaven and earth one day and have to give account for what we do in ALL areas. Do we want to be the very thing satan uses to cause our dear children to stumble in there christian walk? For precious souls, ~ Darlene~ .......................................................................................... We also must remember that God used many different instruments for praise: Psalm 33:1-2 and sometimes even lots of volume: verse 3.Psa 33:1 Rejoice in the LORD, O ye righteous: for praise is comely for the upright. Psa 33:2 Praise the LORD with harp: sing unto him with the psaltery and an instrument of ten strings. Psa 33:3 Sing unto him a new song; play skilfully with a loud noise. In the Old testament Gods people were much differant than New testament christians. Old testament christians were flashy, bright, wore jewelry, broided gold and bright colors in their hair, they had many wives, they went to war ( they were bloody men ) eye for an eye, they sang, danced, and played lively music, but in the New testament God calls his people to be differant, He has us put away fleshly lust that war against our souls 1Pe 2:11 Dearly beloved, I beseech you as strangers and pilgrims, abstain from fleshly lusts, which war against the soul; , were told to be kind to our enemies Mat 5:44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you; , not to ware gold, pearls, etc, not to broid our hair etc... 1Ti 2:9 In like manner also, that women adorn themselves in modest apparel, with shamefacedness and sobriety; not with broided hair, or gold, or pearls, or costly array; There are many differances between Old a New testament christians. I enjoy musical insterments of all kinds ( unless they are the apperance of evil ele guitar, pan pipes, etc...) as long as they are played in a proper way with the proper beat. There are good beats and bad beat The wrong beat in music is the issue here not whether insterments are good or bad. They also had some kind of beat kept perhaps with a tambourine, Psalm 81:2. And cymbals, Psalm 150:5. If you read the whole of Psalm 150 we are also given the Biblical example of dancing, not for fleshly desires, but out of pure exultation to God. Yes there is even a beat in songs sung without music. The subject discussed here is the wrong beat in music. We do not dance as the heathen do, where are we told to dance in the new Testament and examples of it? This is a new one for me and most christians today, even far back in history, hundreds of years back even. I havent heard of this practice. The Charismatic's dance, but they also have many wrong teachings and practices, and most are carnal, when I meet Pentecostal women in the store they are usually rude to me, I smile at them because I apreciate the fact they are trying to be modest and have long hair , and they give me a blank unfriendly look, this used to happen before I covered so it's not the covering. Most of the women I see look grumpy not happy. There is a cult group in our town that is charismatic, they are real modest and very friendly but they are trying to get people to join them, they follow after a so called profit named William Brenam ( not sure how to say his last name.) I think as modern day Christians we tend to forget just what we are here for. We get very wrapped up in "Issues of the Day" but we fail to see that we are here for God's glory. That is the theme in our posts here on this site ( to bring glory to God ) We as christians should try to bring glory to God in everything we do. That was why this thread on proper beat in music was started. Now, I am NOT advocating using the devil's means to deliver God's message, for if you will remember it is through "Preaching" that God's message of Salvation be delivered. It is through music that we are to praise God and encourage the Bretheren.Amen brother, I agree. We must be careful though, Brothers and Sisters, to make sure our "Good" is not evil spoken of. If we through means of our music cause some to stumble, then we are in sin, by the way if we are the ones stumbling, then we are in sin. Not sure what you are saying here. I agree our music should not cause anyone to stumble our children, a new christian, the lost watching us etc... In regards to "The Beat" I believe if it is causing more of a "Fleshly feast" , if you are so caught up in it that God is reduced to a "THOOM THOOM BOPPITY BOP" then you are serving the wrong person. We must remember the warning that Paul gave to young Timothy to "Avoid vain and profane babblings." We have no problem, sometimes, recognizing profanity, but empty things are just as dangerous.May we seek to honor God with our music. Brothers and Sisters in Christ, Satan has desired to sift us as wheat. Let us not let him, especially through music.Amen and Amen. I agree wholeheartedly! Have a great day! ~ sister Darlene ~
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Post by valiantfortruth on Oct 27, 2005 14:50:22 GMT -5
Loving Father,
Thank you for your word, we thank you that you have exalted your word above your name. I thank you that you have given us the commandment to worship you in spirit and truth. John4:23 Help us not to be content with our currant level of christianity, the way we are comfortable in, but rather, stretch us. Help us to always be, pressing on the upward way, to gain new hights every day, so that we may better do thy will. Quicken our hearts this hour, help us to hate, even the garment spotted by the flesh. Jud 1:23 We thank you that you will do this work in our heart. Give us a receptive spirit we pray.
We ask all these things in your holy, omnipotent name. In Jesus name, Amen.
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