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Post by dragonfly on Jul 10, 2007 20:50:51 GMT -5
I was listening to a man preach on biblical appareal and he used the greek and hebrew.
Basically, getting to the point, I am wondering about this word appareal in regards to womens dress.. becasue the way he described it, it was as if we, women, should be wearing a cape dress all the time.. I would like your thoughts on what the definition of appareal is.
D'Ann
katastolç this is the word he used.. to explain the garment.
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Post by rejoice on Jul 11, 2007 4:53:53 GMT -5
Greetings of love in Jesus! Hello D'Ann, Noah Webster's 1828 describes apparel as: apparel APPAR'EL, n. L. paro, apparo, to prepare; Heb. bara 1. Clothing; vesture; garments; dress. 2. External habiliments or decorations; appearance; as, religion appears in the natural apparel of simplicity. Glorious in apparel. Is. 63. 3. The furniture of a ship, as sails, rigging, anchors, &c. APPAR'EL, v.t. 1. To dress or clothe. They who are gorgeously appareled are in kings court. Luke 7. 2. To adorn with dress. She did apparel her apparel. 3. To dress with external ornaments; to cover with something ornamental; to cover, as with garments; as, trees appareled with flowers; or a garden with verdure. 4. To furnish with external apparatus; as ships appareled for sea. In my Sword Searcher CD ROM search the word: katastole is: katastolh katastole kat-as-tol-ay' a deposit, i.e. (specially) costume:--apparel. Personally I feel that clothing should be worn to COVER and CONCEAL. This means, not only should we be wearing clothes that cover our body, but also that covers the shape or form of our body as well. So many feel as long as they wear a long skirt or dress they are modest. But, if the clothing is clingy it can be very immodest. I never really thought about this until I heard a sermon years ago on the subject. I think that long skirts with slits in the back or side are not modest apparel. If you need a slit in the skirt it seems it would be too tight to walk in without it, therefore making it something inappropriate. I have always ruled that IF a skirt has a slit it should be NO higher than the skirt length you would where. Some skirts do have a small slit that really would not be consider immodest because it does not go any higher than right above your ankles or mid calf. I personally do not like the slits in skirts though. I think the most important thing we need to consider when choosing clothing is the appeal of it. Is it simple? Is it calm? (meaning not flashy). We need to reflect the Lord Jesus in all that we do AND wear. Children of the King of kings should not be billboards (or advertisements) for the world's fads or name brands. It grieves me when I see TOMMY written across a Child of the Lord Jesus! Just my very humble thoughts on the subject. Love in Jesus, Angel
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Post by Tammy on Jul 13, 2007 0:10:44 GMT -5
AMEN, Sister Angel! Modesty has two facets - the covering of the body, and shamefacedness (not drawing attention to oneself by dressing "flashy"). When we returned to the States, I was really surprised at the worldly fashions that had seeped into the churches. I'm okay with looking neat and attractive - not frumpy or too outdated - but when the latest fashions are made of spandex, designed to fit the form of the body, and the colors and patterns are flashy and dotted with sequins... Well, that does not exactly fit in with "shamefacedness and sobriety"! (BTW, neither do slogans like "It's all about me". You ever see that??) I think the Mennonites have developed a lovely, feminine dress in their "cape dress" design. I have a few of their patterns for sewing, and really like them b/c they are modest and make great nursing dresses!
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Post by dragonfly on Jul 15, 2007 21:12:38 GMT -5
Thank you for your responses. I truely appreciate it. I have been struggling with dress lately, but not in the manner that most people think. I am modest, jumpers and dresses, but my dad said the other day that I looked like an old lady. It really hit a nerve with me. I wasn't dressing terrible, I looked neat and clean. But I think what it was, was that my dress was long sleeven, had a collar, was loose fitting and went to the floor. Then, add the cover, and homeschooling, and that I am now a soap maker, and bam.. he thinks I should be living with Ma and Pa Ingles on little house on the prairie. I must say though. If I do look like an old lady isn't that better then looking like a harlot? I said those words to my dad, not in a snotty way, but in as loving and respectful way as I could. He agreed, but when I did dress worldly, and sensual, he never said anything about me looking loose.. only now..
And I must say, that it bugs me too that it bugs me so much!! It's my flesh.. yep.. my flesh.
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Post by dragonfly on Jul 15, 2007 21:17:53 GMT -5
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Post by prv31wife on Jul 15, 2007 22:44:32 GMT -5
That dress is beautiful and I don't think it looks like a "lil ol lady" dress!Besides the only one you need to please is the Lord. And I do understand about the statement bugging you. I'm sure that alot of us have had rude comments spoken either to our faces and behind our backs. It comes with the territory. I saw so much immodesty today that I thought today was "Leave Most of Your Clothes at Home Sunday"! You just want to go up to some of these girls and say "Did your Mama let you out of the house like that??"
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Post by Brother Ben on Jul 16, 2007 13:29:47 GMT -5
It bugs me when I am in a church that is "fundamental" in doctrine and my wife says, "Whatever you do, do not look to your right." Why? Because Sister (at least she preports to be a sister) So-in-so has slits and she is showing off her legs. How frustrating. I have to watch my eyes in the ungodly public, I came to church to relax, let down my guard, and hear the man of God. I know lost sinners come and they don't know, I have grace for them, BUT! when the Christian sisters are dressing like $2.00 fluzies it makes me down right indignant. God save the church!
Actually sister, old ladies grew up when ladies knew how to dress. Men, in carnality, like to see some leg and etc. Ungodly lot! You just find a humble modest pattern and dress in the beauty of holiness. Us brothers that love the Lord and are trying to honor him will rise up and call you blessed.
That's what I think. Bro. Ben
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Post by George on Jul 17, 2007 11:31:08 GMT -5
Amen to that Brother Ben! This past Sunday our Pastor preached a wonderful sermon on seperation. A large part of it was on dress. He actually said from the pulpit that men should dress like men and women like women. I do not believe it was strong enough but it was a start. Of course he was referring to the number of women in the Church who were wearing trousers.
Ironically enough after services were over I noticed Pastor and his wife talking to some visitors and the woman was wearing a pair of skin tight jeans! I really hope the message was convicting to her. Of course the alternative is that we may not see her again.
I have noticed that when we get people who come to church dressed in either a worldly or immodest way, if they stay with us over a period of time they will change. I had a student in RU some time back who came to Church in jeans and t-shirts. All of a sudden one Sunday morning he was sitting in Church in a brand new suit. Praise God for convicting him.
In Christ, George
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Post by sandi on Jul 17, 2007 14:08:38 GMT -5
I am modest, jumpers and dresses, but my dad said the other day that I looked like an old lady. It really hit a nerve with me. I wasn't dressing terrible, I looked neat and clean. D'Ann ~ I understand what you are saying. Except those types of comments are coming from my mother and my grandma. Now, I'm learning to sew and eventually will work on other types of dress but for now I wear blouses that are full and at least to elbow and jumpers that are long and flowing and not at all clingy. I have no slits, no gaping areas or anything but for some reason it seems to threaten my family members. I did not grow up in a Christian household and my mom and grandma are very feministic (though they wouldn't call themselves that). It's very difficult to be so set apart and not have them understand why I dress and believe the way I do. But I continue to press on! I had a very difficult time in church 2 weeks ago as our pastor was talking about how we should live our lives for Christ but within his message he had a wonderful opportunity to address modesty and the lack thereof within the church but instead he pressed his point that he didn't care what you looked like ~ whether you had purple hair, lots of tattoos or piercings all over your body, or what kind of clothing you wore because Christ's blood covered it all. I understood the basis of his message but was very saddened that the truth was so diluted. Meanwhile we have all kinds of young adults with body parts showing, short skirts, tiny clingy shirts, flip flops, you get the picture.
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Post by Sister Penny on Jul 17, 2007 18:02:07 GMT -5
Thank you for posting on the modesty and dress for sisters. We have seen the less than modest clothing even in our Baptist church, it just is not easy, many of the elderly sisters wear pantsuits and the younger ladies it is hard pressed to find everyone wearing what one would call modest attire. I am not sure if it is just what the world is coming to in these times or just plain lack of good upbringing in the Word.
I had to smile when one of the sisters commented about the Little House on the Prairie and also looking old...old is fine as long as I am covered :-) I have been told I wear sack dresses and that they look terrible and to get modern styles, etc...I didn't give in then and I won't give in now....it is easier to witness to folks when you do stand upon the Word and they don't see you flip flop back and forth.
Sisters this group is so supportive of modest dress and attitude if you are ever in need of help, please post....I know there will be many Godly responses..
I hope everyone's enjoying a nice quiet evening...Michigan's humid and warm....I am looking forward to fall :-)
God bless, Sister Penny
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Post by prv31wife on Jul 17, 2007 22:20:28 GMT -5
We finally left the Vineyard church and are at a small Baptist church. There is still immodesty there too.It's rather a sad thing to see. I do like this church better than the Vineyard because of the teaching and it's a little more conservative but I do worry that it may give in to the worldly ideas of dress. I really enjoyed our second visit to the Conservative Mennonite Church a couple of weeks ago. It was so refreshing to see all the women in modest dress either cape dresses or jumpers and headcoverings.
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Post by qfmamato4 on Jul 18, 2007 22:08:17 GMT -5
Amen Brother Ben!!!!! D'Ann, my dad says the same thing as well as an uncle.
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Post by joy on Jul 21, 2007 8:07:45 GMT -5
We have had people ask us too... "Hey, what is with the Little House on the prairie dresses?" But the other thing is they ask is if you are not trying to draw attention to yourself WHY do you dress like that? Because they said you do draw attention to yourself because no one dresses like that!
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Post by coveredinharmony on Jul 23, 2007 18:50:52 GMT -5
Hi, D'Ann and all you other sisters! My post seems to drift from the conversation at hand but I feel I have an important point nonetheless.
I think I know which sermon you are speaking of--is it one by Brother Denny at Charity Ministries? If so I remember his logic. According to him, the word "apparel" in 1 Timothy 2:9 is "katastole" in the Greek. He said katastole refers to not just any clothing but a specific garment in the Greek culture--a two piece garment with an underdress and a second double covering. The modern day equivalents, he said, were cape dresses, vest dresses, jumpers, and the like.
I am looking into the historical accuracy of that statement, and from what I have gathered only double-covered garments were called katastole. Single covered garments (i.e., dresses) were called stole, tunica, etc but never katastole. I also saw that even in the Middle Ages a lot of ladies wore jumpers in Christian circles (Yes, jumpers! Only really long.) So perhaps Brother Denny is right? What do you sisters think?
Love in Christ,
Sarah
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Post by coveredinharmony on Jul 23, 2007 22:32:50 GMT -5
We have had people ask us too... "Hey, what is with the Little House on the prairie dresses?" But the other thing is they ask is if you are not trying to draw attention to yourself WHY do you dress like that? Because they said you do draw attention to yourself because no one dresses like that! Hi, Joy! The answer I usually give to people is the principle is not necessarily to blend in--we're supposed to be peculiar and not like the world, after all--but to not draw attention to our bodies. I usually quote 1 Timothy 2:9 to people who prod further (In like manner also, that women adorn themselves in modest apparel, with shamefacedness and sobriety; not with broided hair, or gold, or pearls, or costly array, but that which becometh women professing godliness, with good works). Of course, I usually get the whole "that was for another time" thing in regards to the covering. My answer to that is to sweetly first point out that men still (on the whole) uncover their heads as a sign of respect. Then I also usually say that the epistle was written to the Corinthians and to "all who in all places call upon the name of the Lord Jesus Christ." So just because no one practices it now doesn't mean it's not for today. Love in Christ, Sarah
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