|
|
Post by coveredinharmony on May 21, 2008 13:41:39 GMT -5
I wanted to carry over this conversation from the Weddings thread, since my point was pretty off topic.
Jay and I have been discussing our relationship in a lot of depth. We've especially been talking about physical boundaries, and have basically come to the conclusion that we're going to have to do a lot of research and prayer. For the time being, we're still holding hands and hugging, though less frequently (usually in greeting and to say goodbye). We both feel a little overwhelmed with the idea of never touching one another until we're married, but if that's the Lord's will, we will do it. I suppose we're not sure what the Lord's will *is* yet. For now, we feel that if it's not sexual in nature, and if it's not the focus of what we're doing, then it's OK in moderation. What do you all think? Also, do you have any Scripture or articles to point us to?
Thanks, and Love in Christ,
Sarah
|
|
|
|
Post by coveredinharmony on May 21, 2008 13:58:43 GMT -5
I forgot to include that I am reading the book by Schapp (I'm probably wrong on the spelling...). I've actually read it before, a few years before I met Jay, but I'd forgotten completely about it... I was casually flipping through the book, and one thing stood out to me. It seems it is the author's opinion that nothing of real seriousness pertaining to marriage should be discussed before engagement. That kind of confused me. Jay and I are not formally engaged yet, but we have discussed children and child rearing to a degree. I'm not convinced there's anything wrong with that. We never go into intimate details, or what have you, but we've discussed a few books we've read together (ignoring certain chapters in some of them; we realize now is not the time to discuss certain issues). We've talked about how we plan to discipline children, homeschooling, even things as mundane as diapers. Would any of that be too much? I really do want to shape this relationship around God's will, but I'm not sure how to do that yet. The text is available online: www.jesus-is-savior.com/Books,%20Tracts%20&%20Preaching/Printed%20Books/dating_with_a_purpose-pastor_schaap.htm Love in Christ, Sarah |
|
|
|
Post by SisterNancy on May 21, 2008 16:35:26 GMT -5
my opinion, holding hands and hugging is ok, you are in a committed relationship. You are not calling it engagement officially but you are committed to marying each other.
also, the same applies to conversation. If you don't discuss these things how will you ever know where he stands and what he expects or how will he know what you expect.
again, only because you are in a committed relationship, this is not just a "dating" relationship nor are you still in the "Just friends" stage.
I know there is a book called Biblical dating, but I do not know the author.
|
|
|
|
Post by mitchell on May 21, 2008 17:07:37 GMT -5
Dear Little Sister,  I am almost 62 years old, and speak from some experience. - We live in a culture where there seems to be a habit of being too "touchy-feely" and too familiar and casual. - In fact, some of our church experience in the Southern Baptist church featured too much "hugging" between the sexes at the order of the pastor there at that time. Now, even when we meet some of the people out anywhere, there is still the pressure to "hug" everyone all round. I'm trying to just stick out my hand to the men now, or else just come into a sideways shoulder half-hug. Some of the women hug my husband full-out and head-on. I don't like it, but he would have a fit if I objected. (And, no, I can't "talk" to him about much of anything without it very quickly becoming a fight, so I just keep my mouth shut, or try to at any rate.) His brother used to always hug all the women in the family (he's not a flirty or anything like that). He used to use hugging or not hugging as a sort of "punishment", it seemed to me, if he was mad at someone, he didn't hug. He quit hugging me pretty much completely over a year ago, and, frankly, I'm relieved. Now, I get out of the way around him as it is truly a relief. My advice is to stay pure, even if you're "absoutely sure" you're going to be married and it's "only" two days before your wedding. Any indiscretion or fornication will forever sully your relationship, even if it didn't break up the relationship - people tend not to ever respect each other again. - A lot of us were raised in the "rock n' roll music" era when there was a very lax standard in the pop culture about sexual standards. It was a difficult time to grow up in, especially when one was in the public schools dating scene. Even if a person didn't engage in sexual misbehavior, just the "romantic" ideas about kissing and hugging pushed in the popular movies at that time influenced us all in ways that caused us to interact like the lead actors in those movies with people we didn't marry. - I didn't enjoy dating back then,what little I did date - it was a strain, but there was incredible peer pressure to "date" and "go steady". If you stay clean and keep yourselves pure, you will never look back and regret it. - Respect, respect, respect, both self-respect and respect for the other person cannot be expressed enough. My husband and I married when I was going on 19 and he was 21; and I was head over heels and he claimed to be anyway. I realize now that I allowed too much familiarity with him - it was NOT worth it, as a result his respect for me was damaged - and probably mine for him, as it is a two-way street. "NO!" is a very good word when used judiciously. I am speaking rather frankly here. Wanda |
|
|
|
Post by allenehatherell12 on May 21, 2008 18:29:38 GMT -5
If you don't discuss these things how will you ever know where he stands and what he expects or how will he know what you expect.
I think we ought to know because you are Bible believing Christians with God at the helm. He is the authority in your realtionship. It is very difficult these days for young people, I have an unsaved 18 year old daughter and watch how she and her friends interact, what they wear...it is truly shocking how low the standards of ''common decency'' have fallen. I keep pressing on giving the Word and praying. I am seen always as the one who is being judgemental, spoiling the fun and I get scripture (out of context of course!) thrown at me rather a lot. I keep replying that these are not my standards, my expectations, but Gods. University is a very hard place these days to keep the faith, even in a Christian Uni, there is such compramise and relaxing of Godly expecatations for what my father used to call ''clean living''. I have read a few books on this subject too and from what I can gather, its best not to date at all until you are engaged and then you are commited. Until an engagement its recomended that boys and girls stay in groups and avoid being alone together. This is not only to guard against temptation but most importantly, to give witness to the lost on how young people should interact. It has long been the norm now, out in the world for single boys and girls to study together, but now its acceptable for them to do this alone in their bedrooms and dorm rooms! Sister Allene <><
|
|
|
|
Post by allglorytogod on May 21, 2008 19:56:42 GMT -5
There are definite dangers in hugging ... there should be distance between both bodies ... don't make me come over there and chaperone ... just kidding ... |
|
|
|
Post by allglorytogod on May 21, 2008 20:29:59 GMT -5
I agree ... just another reason to ' separate ' oneself from the terrible tube ... movies, sit-coms etc... they will influence you in ways you're not even totally aware of
|
|
|
|
Post by allglorytogod on May 21, 2008 20:55:15 GMT -5
The Christian way is to still be very careful even though you are engaged ... you don't want to fall into temptation before the wedding ... being out in public together is better than being totally alone
|
|
|
|
Post by coveredinharmony on May 21, 2008 21:33:54 GMT -5
I want to make it clear that Jay and I are not kissing. We agreed on that before we even started dating. Our hugs, for the vast, vast majority of the time, are basically us bending at the waist and putting our forearms around the other's neck for a few seconds. Not much chest contact at all (about 6 inches to a foot or so). I've had people tell me that's not a "real" hug  but yet what else would you call it?  Lo and behold, I found a similar thing doing an image search: www.usfk.mil/USFK/Images/News/KWVA%20HugWS.jpg ;D Except we're a little younger! And I'm not a man LOL Love in Christ, Sarah PS I love the "Little Sister" thing. I really, really do. I might have to add that to my signature, as to not confuse me with Pro Life Sarah |
|
|
|
Post by SisterNancy on May 22, 2008 6:55:48 GMT -5
from previous post I thought that was the hug she was doing and only when they were saying goodby. so it was like a goodby hug not a body contact hug at all.
so, here is my question why are you not engaged. because as read your posts you are in an "engaged" relationship just not using the word? is that correct? will there be a time of engagement? or will you move from this committed relationship to the alter of marriage?
Having kids in college...in Christian colleges all over, I know that so many have different names and expectations that are not defined. I think this is a mistake.
yes, but there are many Christian young people out there, but not all of them should consider marrying each other. They share one common thing...Jesus and Salvation...but that does not mean they share all the same values/expectations etc.
there are many different types of Christians just as there are many different types of personalities and churches.
I don't think I am really being successful at communicating my point so I will pray that as you read this The Holy Spirit will help you understand what I am trying to say.
basically, in a nut shell just because a man or woman is a Christian does not mean they are the right person for the other. they may be better suited for someone else.
|
|
|
|
Post by Brother Ben on May 22, 2008 7:56:54 GMT -5
I just want to jump in here with the liberty (I hope I have,) as an older brother and leader on the board. It has been my experience over the years to teach that a couple maintain a "complete" hands off policy until marriage vows have been taken. This includes holding hands, hugs, and even pecks on the cheek. The scripture clearly states:
Gal 5:13 For, brethren, ye have been called unto liberty; only [use] not liberty for an occasion to the flesh, but by love serve one another.
Rom 13:14 But put ye on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make not provision for the flesh, to [fulfil] the lusts [thereof].
Jer 17:9 The heart [is] deceitful above all [things], and desperately wicked: who can know it?
Pro 28:26 He that trusteth in his own heart is a fool: but whoso walketh wisely, he shall be delivered.
Now let me tell you a story: When I was in Bible college, there was a preacher boy in our church that was a high school senior. He was a good boy from a good family. He had all the markings of a rising star preacher boy. He even gave me a new bible when he saw that mine was falling apart. He was a good boy and Darlene and I were fond (and still are,) of him.
The one thing that bothered us was, our church did not teach abstainance in regards to dating etc. After church he and his "girlfriend" would get in the car, and drive off together after church. It did not look good, and we had a bad feeling about that type of activity. We had been taught different for good reasons.
Well, that same couple went off to a premier IFB college, if I named it, you'd all know it. While in college the girl came up pregnant out of wedlock from the same boy. They were expelled from college. They repented, married, had the baby, and still served God. That is the Pheonix from the ashes, but the point I'm making is...there didn't have to be any ashes!
Dating is dangerous. I firmly believe a couple should only see each other in the presence of family and brethren, and touching...ALL TOUCHING...should not be done till marriage vows have been taken. I may sound Puritanical, but I have seen too many bad scenes.
Bro. Ben
|
|
kscarle
Member
Philippians 4:4, Romans 12:1, John 14:15
Posts: 97
|
Post by kscarle on May 22, 2008 19:45:21 GMT -5
I totally agree with Bro. Ben... My church is lax in this area of teaching, but where we go to college their church has a no touch policy and if your next to each other in the pew there has to be a book between them...their not even suppose to be caught alone. I just recently attended a wedding that was beautiful, the bride and groom kissed for the first time after they were married. I am reminded of the old saying "If I knew then what I know now" I am glad your giving it serious consideration
|
|
|
|
Post by 7schmicks on May 22, 2008 23:27:25 GMT -5
Dear Little Sister Sarah,
Brother Ben's post was wonderful, but he forgot a couple of really good verses.
"Now concerning the things whereof ye wrote unto me: It is good for a man not to touch a woman. Nevertheless, to avoid fornication, let every man have his own wife, and let every woman have her own husband." I Cor. 1:1-2 There you have it in black and white!
How long down the road will an engagement be? You are already touching, yet haven't made any real commitment of marriage with one another. Now what happens if something comes up that causes a rift in your relationship? You aren't as pure as you could be for the husband that God may give you later! What if you do get engaged someday? You may feel that since you now have a commitment, you ought to "spice up" and further your relationship with some more physical contact. It will cause you to each lose some of the respect for one another that you ought to have.
Sister Brenda
|
|
|
|
Post by coveredinharmony on May 23, 2008 0:16:12 GMT -5
Brothers and sisters, the Lord is pressing sorely on my heart today. I'm feeling overwhelmed with the tumult in my spirit...I am going to spend tomorrow fasting and praying about all of this, about purity, about Jay, about my life. I'm feeling a huge need to pray, to pray through.
Thank you all for your rebukes and your prayer. I desperately need it.
I fear I have gone far too far down a worldly road, even though I am outwardly and in a large part inwardly Christian. I've let so many worldly influences into my life. The vehement emotion I'm feeling right now can't be expressed in typed words. I'm shaking in near tears right now. The Lord is calling me to repent, I know it.
It is fear that's holding me back, I know it. Fear of rebuke, fear of having my "good image tainted," fear of losing Jay, fear of never marrying, fear that shouldn't be.
My heart is breaking, brothers and sisters. I need to bear my heart before my Father. I'll respond to your questions and posts within the next few days.
Hallelujah for the blood, which both cleanses and convicts...
Little sister Sarah
|
|
|
|
Post by Brother Ben on May 23, 2008 7:49:35 GMT -5
Sister Sarah,
I appreciate your humble spirit and I guess I wanted to make sure that you know that we desire God's wonderful grace and leadership in your life. The professing church of the 21st century has "gone to far" down the worldly road. It has long since crept into the "conservative" churches and those who should say something usually don't so they don't "stir up trouble."
I wise man of God once said, "It is time for Christians to stop drawing lines between good and evil, and start making gaps!"
May the Lord bless you and your dear friend Jay with wisdom and peace. The Lord knows we all fall in love sometime and move forward with relationships. Take it easy and seek His face.
Bro. Ben
|
|
but yet what else would you call it?
Lo and behold, I found a similar thing doing an image search: 
