When was the Great Apostacy?

[robertcolumbia]

One of the foundational principles of Protestantism (and also, some non-Christian or quasi-Christian cults) is that the original Church as mentioned in the Book of Acts represented the "True" faith, and that, over time, false doctrines crept into that Church until some point in time at which the Organized Church ceased to represent the true faith and became a "beast" that eventually became the Roman Catholic Church and the Orthodox Churches. Some documents, such as Martyrs Mirror, claim that there were true believers through all centuries that were disconnected and/or persecuted by the high, Roman Government Approved, Church.

How do you understand this? Have any of y'all found a specific date or incident where you feel this happened? A common Evangelical viewpoint seems to claim that Emperor Constantine corrupted the church when he organized the Council of Nicea and put his own cronies in charge. Some, such as Lutherans and Anglicans, might put the date significantly later. Has there always been a Baptist Church behind the scenes of world history (even if it wasn't called that?)

[Brother Ben]

Oct 24, 2011 16:55:50 GMT -5 robertcolumbia said:

One of the foundational principles of Protestantism (and also, some non-Christian or quasi-Christian cults) is that the original Church as mentioned in the Book of Acts represented the "True" faith, and that, over time, false doctrines crept into that Church until some point in time at which the Organized Church ceased to represent the true faith and became a "beast" that eventually became the Roman Catholic Church and the Orthodox Churches. Some documents, such as Martyrs Mirror, claim that there were true believers through all centuries that were disconnected and/or persecuted by the high, Roman Government Approved, Church.

How do you understand this? Have any of y'all found a specific date or incident where you feel this happened? A common Evangelical viewpoint seems to claim that Emperor Constantine corrupted the church when he organized the Council of Nicea and put his own cronies in charge. Some, such as Lutherans and Anglicans, might put the date significantly later. Has there always been a Baptist Church behind the scenes of world history (even if it wasn't called that?)

The common understanding of the corruption of the Roman church by Constantine is correct. However, it was not his cronies, originally, it was actual pastors who understood the apostolic doctrines, but in time through money and power became corrupt.

Notice this quote from a "Baptist" history article:

l wish to purposely introduce non-Baptist testimony to the great antiquity of Baptist people. Cardinal Hosius (1504-1579) was a Roman Catholic prelate who had as his life work the investigation and suppression of non-Catholic groups. By Pope Paul IV he was designated one of the three papal presidents of the famous Council of Trent. Hosius carried on vigorously the work of the counter-reformation. If anyone in post-reformation times knew the doctrines and history of nonCatholic groups, it was Hosius. Cardinal Hosius says, "Were it not that the Baptists have been grievously tormented and cut off with the knife during the past 1,200 years, they would swarm in greater number than all the Reformers" (Letters Apud Opera, pp.112, 113). Note carefully that this knowledgeable Catholic scholar has spoken of the vicious persecution Baptists have endured, that he clearly distinguishes them from the Reformers, and that he dates them 1,200 years before the Protestant Reformation.

So, we see from the quote of this Catholic Cardinal, that they cut off those with a apostolic doctrine for over 1,200 years and he called them Baptists. This is not to be understood in the context of "modern baptists." When those enemies of the faith used the term "baptists" they were referring to those "baptizers," since the issue of baptizing "again" was the topic of much animosity. From that phrase, "again-baptizers," we get our word, anabaptists.

A wikipedia article states:

To a large degree, Protestantism recognizes that the formation of the Orthodox-Catholic Church under Caesar Constantine I (c. 325 AD) sought to bring stability, continuity and organization to the birth of the relatively new Christian faith. However, through decades of succession by poor, often politically motivated leadership, abuses of Scriptural application became prevalent.

There has always been a "true church" of the Lord Jesus Christ. It was typically a church which "baptized" after a meaningful profession of faith. Thus they were baptistic in nature, but not Baptist as a sect.