|
Post by learningtosubmit on Dec 26, 2005 16:57:55 GMT -5
I have read Ex. 20 verse 4 and I am trying to reconcile it to how we are living.
It seems that there are two separate commands: 1) not to make any graven images or likenesses and 2) not to bow down or serve them.
Does this mean pictures or photographs? Our family has had a nativity scene, but now I am seeing this in a different light (as well as the whole idea of Christmas - I studied that thread, too).
In an effort to live Plain, I have been eliminating such things from our home, but now I am wondering if it should all be eliminated.
I hope this isn't too basic of an issue. Mark and I have so many questions, but no one to counsel us. We belong to a Conservative Baptist church and find it difficult to fellowship when we are so differently minded. Just the reactions we have received to my covering indicate that we are moving in a different direction.
|
|
|
Post by bereanman on Dec 26, 2005 17:46:13 GMT -5
Dear Sister, if I may...
Let's look at these verses in context:
Exo 20:2 I am the LORD thy God, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage. Exo 20:3 Thou shalt have no other gods before me. Exo 20:4 Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth: Exo 20:5 Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;
We see from the Scriptures that the Lord would not have us make any graven images or likenesses for the purpose of worship. That is easy enough for us because we as fundamental Christians would never do this, that is, bow down to serve any statues or the like.
But in keeping with this, I believe the Lord would have us not have any graven image or pictures because the idea of somekind of worship of it will always be present. For example, if I were to have a "picture" of Jesus on my wall (by the way, nobody knows what He looked like) I may not worship it, but I will always look at it with reverence. But we have a better standard than that, we have our faith that we live by, without having to "see" anything.
Rom 1:20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
2 Cor 5:7 (For we walk by faith, not by sight:)
In my house, we don't have any kinds of figurines of any kind, not angels or manger scenes or anything. If you have a little cross up somewhere I think that's ok because it's not an image of a person or beast, it's the Christian symbol of our Saviour's sacrifice.
I hope this helps and encourages you.
Br. Tony
|
|
|
Post by Brother Ben on Dec 26, 2005 22:24:30 GMT -5
Sister Shanna asked,
This whole topic has caused us to take all these things into consideration. I don't think a photograph of common things, i.e., friends, family, vacation, etc. are graven images. However, images of Jesus, angels, etc., are the things of Heaven and have a tendency to receive unscriptural reverence.
The plain and simple N.T. Christian life is in such danger of spiritual clutter. There are so many things Christians think you have to have to have "authentic" Christianity. You often see me use the phrase, "American or Americanized Christianity," in my posts. That is because we have practiced this red, white, and blue Christianity for so long, that we have lost alot of the sense of first century Christianity. They weren't playing games and often payed with martyrs blood for their devotion to God. They did not encumber their lives with a bunch of "pop" foolishness.
God bless you and Bro. Mark and you seek after the pure and good ways of the Lord.
Bro. Ben
|
|
|
Post by sojourner on Dec 27, 2005 10:33:50 GMT -5
This has been a bit of a point of contention with me also. When i was in college our BSU (Baptist Student Union) had a prayer room, and inside that prayer room was a very large and i will admit a beautiful picture of the Savior. It wasn't the usual blonde hair, blue eyed Americanized picture...but one of Him with tattered hair and the crown of thorns upon His brow; and i say this was beautiful because it was for my sins that His blood was shed for.
Before i digress any further, let me get to my point...i really never felt comfortable praying in there with that picture. A lot of people would claim that they could look at that picture and focus on God better; but i never could. I didn't argue much about it because i was a new believer (became a Christian just a couple of weeks before my first semester in college...and i assumed everyone else had to know better than me, right? Maybe not!).
Perhaps it was my catholic upbringing where i had to look at so many graven images of all sorts and styles that made me uncomfortable with that situation, or maybe it was the Holy Spirit. Either way, i just don't feel comfortable with even having a picture of Jesus anywhere i'm going to be praying or worshipping due to fear of my adoration going toward that image and not to the One who truly deserves it.
Thanks for letting me share.
in HIS grip bro bobby
|
|
|
Post by pastorsmate on Dec 31, 2005 14:35:28 GMT -5
We have to rightly divide the word, and that commandment was given to the Jews that were worshipping other gods and idols and various things instead of the one true God, now we have the power of the Holy Spirit to help us over come these things, and anything you put before God is a idol, may it be your child, or your home or job, just anything else, an it is Spiritual adultry. The graven image is not talking about photos here, they did not even have pictures back when God gave this commandment to the Jews, this pretty well explains it Exd 20:4 Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing] that [is] in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth: He is talking about making a so we call a mirror image, with likeness to anything that is similar to what God created, and worshipping it.
Deu 27:15; Psa 97:7 ( Heb. pesel), refers to the household gods of idolaters. "Every nation and city had its own gods...Yet every family had its separate household or tutelary god." It is hard to explain I know in my own mind but hard to put into words.
|
|
|
Post by Brother Ben on Dec 31, 2005 14:54:38 GMT -5
Tony hit on two good verses back up the page:
Rom 1:20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
2 Cor 5:7 (For we walk by faith, not by sight
To the finite man, the things of God an invisible. They are only comprehended spiritually, by faith. When people try to "help" our faith by using paintings, statues, icons, etc., they cause one to trust a little bit less on faith and more on sight to inspire the soul to feelings of spiritual zeal . What happens when we use a "thing" to bump up our feelings, perception, whatever? We cause faith to become weakened. God wants His children to look up into the open heavenlies and see His face (spiritually not physically.) This is how Moses knew God.
Exo 33:11 And the LORD spake unto Moses face to face, as a man speaketh unto his friend....
Now we know that no man has seen God at any time, but Moses proved that even in the O.T. man could have intimacy with His beloved Friend of Heaven, God. Moses surely was saying, "Amen, God" when He was giving the ten commandments because He knew you didn't need vain imagery to comprehend God.
In our N.T. experience, we need to clear our lives of "religious clutter" that causes us to be distracted to pure religion and undefiled. We need to commit to the Lord in seeking His face and getting quiet before Him so that we can sense His presence. When we draw nigh unto God through His word and sacred devotions, images fall short.
|
|