Divorce/Remarriage

[hollydawnr]

I have a question about divorce and remarriage...

I know that the Bible speaks very strongly against divorce and against second marriages. I know that as a Christian, it would be wrong of me to consider my marriage anything other than permanently binding, and that to "remarry" would be adultery.

That said, I have some concerns with some of the much more "hard-lined" viewpoints, particularly of some of the Anabaptist groups. Some of these groups will tell you that if you are in an "adulterous marriage" (second or subsequent marriage), you cannot be saved unless you repent of your "adultery", separate from your spouse, and remain single for the rest of your life. Some will permit you to reconcile with your FIRST spouse, but isn't that some kind of abomination in Leviticus?

My first problem with such a hard doctrine is that I don't think it's correct to tell someone that they have to divorce their spouse before they can be saved. If Jesus died for our sins, then wouldn't that include the sin of adultery?

My second problem is that I'm really wondering how such a doctrine is supposed to be applied... I know that "What God hath joined together, let no man put asunder," but I wonder if God truly "joins" everyone who has a marriage license? There are states and countries out there now that permit gay marriage--does God "bless" a Sodomite union? In such a case, would God consider the first marriage "valid"?

That's not the only "gray" area I see here... What about someone who was remarried BEFORE accepting Christ, who honestly and truthfully didn't know better? Does that person have to get a divorce and leave their children in a broken home? What about someone whose wedding was performed by a Internet-ordained pagan priestess? Is THAT type of marriage considered "valid"? I was once acquainted with a couple that "married" for "a period of three years, to be renewed at the end of that time only with mutual agreement."

So I guess I have a couple of questions about this whole thing:

1: If you are in a second or subsequent marriage, can you still be saved?

2: What constitutes a valid "marriage" in the eyes of God?

3: What about the passage in I Corinthians that says, "If you are bound, seek not to be loosed." If you are in a second marriage when you accept Christ, should you separate or divorce from your spouse?

Thanks in advance for the help!

[qfmamato4]

I think this has been one of my many questions. This is my first and only marraige and this is my husband's 2nd and last marriage. His first ended becuase he was tired of being slept around on. His ex slept around on him for years. He tried to make it work. After they had a son, he had to do a paternity test to make sure it was his. She left them when the babe was just a year old. She came back the following year when he was 2 and Jamie tried to make a go of it then, She again slept around on him and he had enough so when she wanted to leave again he said for her to never come back if she did. She left and he got a divorce, Is our marraige not legal in the eyes of God? Oh my I really ought to be doing some praying,

[Brother Ben]

Holly made some very good observations. This "doctrine" that has been made about divorce and remarriage is "real big" in some circles, especially our anabaptist brethren. Now, I'd like to say in their defense, divorece is bad, it is not God's will, and they have taken a very strong stand on this issue, and the people in their churches take a very grave attitude about it and as a result there is a greater commitment to marriage and family. the fruit of this stand is good in their case.

I do not say that I am in 100% agreement with this stand for some of the reasons that Holly stated. There are some inconsistencies in some of the arguements used to promote that there can be no valid remarriage.

As with your example of "gay marriage" there are marraiges that are not ordained of God. If the heathen make a vow, it is void because even their prayers are an abomination to God. Of course it does not count. And, in the case of divorce prior to conversion, in the Bible I read, ALL sin was washed away. It is double jepordy to bring up an offense Christ has washed in His all-sufficient blood and lay on the shouders of the forgiven a second time.

1: If you are in a second or subsequent marriage, can you still be saved?

2: What constitutes a valid "marriage" in the eyes of God?

3: What about the passage in I Corinthians that says, "If you are bound, seek not to be loosed." If you are in a second marriage when you accept Christ, should you separate or divorce from your spouse?

1. One is only considered saved or lost based on a second marriage if they believe this stand on divorce and remarriage. Either side can make passionate arguements.

Jhn 13:9 Simon Peter saith unto him, Lord, not my feet only, but also [my] hands and [my] head.
Jhn 13:10 Jesus saith to him, He that is washed needeth not save to wash [his] feet, but is clean every whit: and ye are clean, but not all.

Act 10:15 And the voice [spake] unto him again the second time, What God hath cleansed, [that] call not thou common.

It is not for man to deem a person "unsaved" based on a controversial secondary issue.

2.
Valid individuals. If people become involved in common law marriage, gay marriage, open ended marriage (Europe,) etc., then there has to be some order or sense. I side with those who have had their eyes openned by the gospel of Jesus Christ. I have personal feelings about if a person should remarry after they have been saved, but I believe it is best to judge the circumstances individually instead of make blanket statements that often condemn many unnecessarily.

3.
Rom 6:1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
Rom 6:15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.
If a person has become involved in a remarriage, is it right to sin again and divorce? I know that some would say the second marriage was invalid so it does not count in the eyes of God. Then why did Jesus say,

Jhn 4:16 Jesus saith unto her, Go, call thy husband, and come hither.

Jhn 4:17 The woman answered and said, I have no husband. Jesus said unto her, Thou hast well said, I have no husband:

Jhn 4:18 For thou hast had five husbands; and he whom thou now hast is not thy husband: in that saidst thou truly.

Jesus said she had five husbands, and was currently shanking up with this other guy. This is not a justification of such activity, but a realization that a second marriage may be recognized.

Also, I have read a ton of material about the word divorce in the Gospels and the Jewish practice of engagement, and the breaking off of engagement based on fornication, etc. We are not Jewish, and do not practice Jewish customs, so we are going to have to have some grace while we figure out how this applies to us Gentiles. The Apostles in relating the transition of Biblical truth from a Jewish sense to a Gentile sense made these demands of the Gentiles church.

Act 21:25 As touching the Gentiles which believe, we have written [and] concluded that they observe no such thing, save only that they keep themselves from [things] offered to idols, and from blood, and from strangled, and from fornication.

I think by the Spirit of God we can have some direction on these things, but we need to also have some grace as we find our way in this very controversial issue.

Searching the scriptures,
Bro. Ben

[qfmamato4]

i am just bumping as I am hoping Brother Ben can post about what I have said on this thread.

[Brother Ben]

Mat 5:32 But I say unto you, That whosoever shall put away his wife, saving for the cause of fornication, causeth her to commit adultery: and whosoever shall marry her that is divorced committeth adultery.

qfmamato4,
The issue at hand is not the innocent party, but the guilty. The marriage has been nullified through the uncleanness of the guilty party.

This is a reference to the passage in Deuteronomy

Deu 24:1 When a man hath taken a wife, and married her, and it come to pass that she find no favour in his eyes, because he hath found some uncleanness in her: then let him write her a bill of divorcement, and give [it] in her hand, and send her out of his house.

Deu 24:2 And when she is departed out of his house, she may go and be another man's [wife].

Deu 24:3 And [if] the latter husband hate her, and write her a bill of divorcement, and giveth [it] in her hand, and sendeth her out of his house; or if the latter husband die, which took her [to be] his wife;

Deu 24:4 Her former husband, which sent her away, may not take her again to be his wife, after that she is defiled; for that [is] abomination before the LORD: and thou shalt not cause the land to sin, which the LORD thy God giveth thee [for] an inheritance.

Sounds to me like she, through her actions, lost favour in his sight. Now I do beleive in extending mercy and forgiveness, but if there is no interest in reconciliation, then after a period of seeking the mind of the Lord, one should go on with their life.

Bro. Ben

[George]

Brother Ben has made some good posts on this subject. Being a divorced man myself I have done a great deal of research on the subject. The hard adherence to being absolutely against any divorce and also the stance taken by some circles that a divorced person cannot remarry is not supported by the Bible and is the words of men being treated and taught as doctrine.

As Brother Ben quoted Jesus said it is not permissible to divorce save for reason of fornication. Paul teaches divorce is acceptable in some cases. The Bible cannot and does not contradict itself although it appears to in the instant case.

First it is necessary to understand the word "fornication." Often it is accepted to mean sexual immorality between two people at least one of which is not married. That is a part of it but only a part of it. Let me give you one of the definitions of the word you may find quite surprising.

G4202 (From Strong's)
πορνεία
porneia
por-ni'-ah
From G4203; harlotry (including adultery and incest); figuratively idolatry: - fornication.

Fornication (From Noah Webster's 1828 Dictionary)
FORNICA'TION, n. [L. fornicatio.]

1. The incontinence or lewdness of unmarried persons, male or female; also, the criminal conversation of a married man with an unmarried woman.

2. Adultery. Mat 5.

3. Incest. 1 Cor 5.

4. Idolatry; a forsaking of the true God, and worshipping of idols. 2 Chr 21. Rev 19.

Notice that in both definitions idolatry is mentioned. Fornication is any kind of immorality. Idolizing anythng outside the marriage and outside of God is immorality and therefore fornication. If a person idolizes money, their job (a workaholic,) or anything of that nature they are, by definition, a fornicator.

This can be borne out by the situation and facts of the teachings mentioned. Who was Jesus addressing? He was addressing believers. The things He said were not addressed to the lost. Paul in 1 Corinthians addressed the unsaved when he said that if the unbelieving depart the brother or sister is not in bondage. That means not in bondage to themselves or to the law.

Paul further goes on to say that if such a divorced person were to marry they have not sinned!

1Co 7:28 But and if thou marry, thou hast not sinned;

Paul cannot write things in the Bible that are contradictory to the teachings of Jesus. Besides don't we believe that every word in the Bible is the direct Word of God? God cannot contradict Himself.

So there are legal divorces in accordance with New Testament doctrine and second marriages are permissable. The Bible specifically says it is not sin to remarry if the circumstances of the divorce were in keeping with the doctrines of the Bible and not the doctrines of men.

In Christ,
George

[benshelpmeet]

Quote:Notice that in both definitions idolatry is mentioned. Fornication is any kind of immorality. Idolizing anything outside the marriage and outside of God is immorality and therefore fornication. If a person idolizes money, their job (a workaholic,) or anything of that nature they are, by definition, a fornicator.



Wow! That would mean most any christian has grounds for divorce. So many christians are unfaithful in those areas. That would make it too easy to divorce, why even get married at all?

Please explain if I'm not understanding what I read... It's been a long day!

[Deleted]

Forgive me if I seem a little slow, but you have made me wonder if, since both of my husbands (yes, I've been married twice already, and I really don't plan on it happening again) were unfaithful (literally), are you saying that I could, conceivably, marry again? Assuming, of course, I could find a man with the same beliefs as I now hold, and he would have me ? I had thought that since I've bombed twice in that department that I had no right to marry again. I had one pastor tell me that since the legal grounds were not adultery, that I couldn't re-marry.
Thank you,
Linda

[George]

Wow! That would mean most any christian has grounds for divorce. So many christians are unfaithful in those areas. That would make it too easy to divorce, why even get married at all?

Actually Sister Darlene it is not that easy. It may appear to be easy to put away one's wife or husband but if yu follow the teachings of the Bible it is only done as a last resort and for those certain specific reasons.

(1 Corinthians 7:11) But and if she depart, let her remain unmarried, or be reconciled to her husband: and let not the husband put away his wife.

According to what I read in my Bible reconciliation is what is suppossed to take place. I believe we are to take every single step we can to reconcile to each other before divorce is considered.

In Christ,
George