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Post by nightingale on Dec 14, 2005 14:35:43 GMT -5
Bros and Sisters...I have a question...first I would like to say that I read out of the "King James Version"...I have read why those who read only out of the King James do so...here is the pickle...My Pastor told our congregation that if you associate or attend a church that believes and preaches the King James is the only true bible...that it is an occult...and that we should stay far away from them...WHAT?...Then I was on my way to school listening to the radio and the preacher that was talking was from a church called "Calvary Chapel" he basically said the same thing...and said that those who preached King James only was a form of an occult and that there were even some of those type of people that taught if you were saved by the means of another bible you were going to HELL...WHAT?...So these people including my own Pastor said that we are judging others when we try to push our beliefs onto them...and again I must stress that they said to stay away from those saying King James only...They don't have a problem with the King James, but they believe that there other versions that are accurate for today too...like the "New King James Version" that simple is easier to read and translated into today's language...Help...I am so confused...Sister Debbie
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Post by Brother Ben on Dec 14, 2005 16:39:26 GMT -5
And I thought my view on the Bible was radical  First let me put out there fire. Again, the Greek work here is...balderdash! I am a King James only user, but I personally was led to Christ in a Southern Baptist Church out of a New American Standard Version. I understood, and I got saved. P.S. I am still am. It is improper and unkind for men in position of leadership to make such unfounded remarks. Yes, there are those who take the KJV only stand that make ingnorant remarks, but they are the exception, not the rule. For that sake, the Mormons use the KJV only as far as the Christian bible goes. I do make a judgement, but not of their salvaiton or commitment to Christ, but as to their knowledge of the issues involved in manuscript evidences. It is better to read the NIV, and obey Christ, and love the Lord, than to have a KJV, and be a wicked backslidden rascal. You know what people do when they get backed into a corner with an issue, they cry, "Judge not, lest you be judged!" This is a weak defense. When I was unlearned, I didn't know there was an issue. When I learned there was a difference, I took a stand because my pastor said so. When I became a man (spiritually) I studied and found out for myself. There IS a difference. If there wasn't an issue, they wouldn't talk so ill about those who take a strong stand on the KJV, and malign them so as "occult." This is a lie and a false accusation, and I would take them to task and this slanderous and inaccurate depiction. Far be it from me to give pastoral counsel, but I would have a BIG problem sitting under a man that make remarks like that. I'd be church hunting, uh let's see, tonight since it is Wednesday night. Jesus said, "...It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God." Matt. 4:4 If EVERY word wasn't important, I wouldn't make a big deal out of it. Bro. Ben |
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Post by rso on Dec 14, 2005 18:47:43 GMT -5
Dear Sister,
You have just stepped into one of the biggest questions of the Christian life. Did God write a book? and if so where is it? (Is 40:8)
There is no easy way out of the question if you are a Christian in an English speaking country. There is obviously a big disagreement on the matter as you have witnessed. Your conclusions will determine the path you follow in your Christian life. I would encourage you to proceed by faith not by sight. (1 Cor 2:5)
Brother O'Neill
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Post by George on Dec 14, 2005 18:49:30 GMT -5
Excuse me? I am here to tell you that God's Word does NOT change. My word! The very Bible these people reject tells them that. It is one of the reasons for their rejection. (Hebrews 13:8) Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.
Each and every word that is written down in the King James Bible is the very words of God written down by men as they were told to write them by the Holy Spirit of God. They are not subject to change or private interpretation.
Every single one of these modern "versions" of the Bible leaves out at least 100 verses and often as many as 200. That is actual Bible verses. The NIV which was spoken of leaves out close to 65,000 words. No book can leave out that many words and say the same thing. It is impossible. The NIV also denies the deity of our Lord and Saviour, Jesus Christ 155 times. It denies that Christ is the Son of God and God the Son so many times at least one book has been written about it. There is one verse in the Book of Revelation in the NIV which says that Satan and Jesus Christ are the same person!
Purified Seven Times is the title of an excellent book on the superiority of the King James Bible. We see here reference to being refined 7 times. The King James Bible we have today is the 7th major English language translation of God's Holy Word. We also see right there that God's word is not only pure, it is preserved as such from this generation for ever. These modern version folks do not believe God's Word has been preserved for us in the English language and yet we see right here in God's own words tha it has. Of course they deny that also.
Ah ignorant people! Actually these people are worse than ignorant. They are perverse and fall into the category of swine according to Jesus. They have been told the truth and they reject it. Unfortunately these modern version folks are looking for the easy way out. One of the prerequisites to having a rock and roll band in Church is use of the NIV or the NLT.
I could go on and on. In fact in my seminary class on the superiority of the King James Bible I got a 97%. I know this subject and this has not even touched the erroneous teachings about judging. My goodness, to get started do some reading and studying on 1 Cor. 6:2-3.
Yours in Christ,
George
( I almost forgot to say I agree with brother Ben. Don't walk out of that Church, run! Find another one quickly.)
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Post by nightingale on Dec 16, 2005 2:49:33 GMT -5
Thank you Brothers  |
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Post by ep210 on Dec 17, 2005 14:11:59 GMT -5
To answer a question on the issue of KJV only takes time.
Let me explain to you a basic concept about all English Bibles. First of all, there are three cities from which all English Bibles came. If you have an English Bible, it came from one of three cities. The first city is that of Antioch of Syria. The second one is Alexandria of Egypt, and the third one is Rome, Italy. Now, we've got to figure out which city produced the right Bible. Let's go back to the first one. Let's go back to Antioch of Syria. Ninety-five percent off all Greek manuscripts, like the New Testament, came from Antioch of Syria. They agree with each other 95 percent of the time. In other words. you can put them all together, and they agree better than nine out of ten times.
Go to the next city, Alexandria of Egypt. That's the headquarters of the world's library; a 200,000 volume library. It was one of the seven wonders of the ancient world. Five percent off all the Greek manuscripts came fro Alexandria of Egypt. They disagree with each other 95 percent of the time. It's really hard to find two of them that say the same thing. Since they disagree so much, you understand it's kind of hard to figure out which ones are right.
Then we go to Rome, Italy, Those same five percent went form Alexandria, and they wound up in Rome, Italy, where they were locked up in vaults for many, many years. They agree with each other, but the same group disagrees about 95 percent of the time.
Now, go back to Antioch of Syria. Let's remember what this city stands for; this is where Christians were first called Christians. Alexandria and Egypt are always a type of the world. Would you think that God would trust the world to produce His Bible? Rome, Italy is the headquarters of Catholicism.
Do you think that it is fair to all of the different religions of the world to have only one religion that produces the Bible? There was no one religion the started in Antioch of Syria. It's just where Christians were named by those who said, "You remind me so much of Jesus Christ."
Now, we've got 95 percent of all the manuscripts coming from one city; they agree with each other 95 percent of the time. All the other ones disagree with each other. All English Bibles came from either Alexandria or Rome Except for one. Only one English Bible came out of Antioch of Syria. Which one is that? The King James Bible!
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Post by manasseh on Dec 19, 2005 7:33:36 GMT -5
After I got saved I used the NIV. I sought God to know the truth, and he brought a man into my life that told me the KJV is The Word of God. The Spirit of God within me confirmed it upon opening its pages. This is called "faith" and sensitivity to the Spirit of Truth living in us.
We don't need two, three, four, or even two hundred and fifty "translations." We need the Spirit.
We don't need to know Greek, Hebrew, or Aramiac to know what the Spirit of God tells us in the KJV, for the Spirit speaks to us in our english language.
Intellectual understanding voids the working of the Spirit, and are contrary to one another many times. The Spirit tells us the truth first and then the Word of God confirms it in us in the KJV.
Ask God to show you. He will. Listen to the Spirit of God. He doesn't need any commentaries, Lexicons, or other languages, just your faith and belief, and your realizing what is the Holy Spirit talking to you.
It is simple, and for simple people, not the wise or the learned. Not many wise are called.
Brother Steve
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Post by momtogirls5 on Jan 1, 2006 19:30:27 GMT -5
To brother George,
I don't know how to do the quote box.
Do know off hand the verse in Revelation that states Jesus and Satan are the same?
Lenni
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Post by Brother Ben on Jan 1, 2006 22:07:48 GMT -5
I'm not Bro. George, but I had a few extra minutes and I hope you don't mind if I answer this question.
Isaiah 14:12 NIV
How you have fallen from heaven, O morning star, son of the dawn! You have been cast down to the earth, you who once laid low the nations!
Isa 14:12 KJV How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!
Revelation 2:28 NIV
just as I have received authority from my Father. I will also give him the morning star.
Rev 2:28 KJV And I will give him the morning star.
Revelation 22:16 NIV
"I, Jesus, have sent my angel to give you this testimony for the churches. I am the Root and the Offspring of David, and the bright Morning Star."
Rev 22:16 KJV I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star
The KJV differentiates Lucifer (and calls him by that name) in Isaiah from Jesus in Revelation calling the devil, son of the morning, and calling Jesus, morning star. However, the NIV, and all contemporary translations don't mention Lucifer by name in Isaiah and call him, morning star and then turn around and call Jesus the same name in Rev. 2:28.
Do you understand?
Bro. Ben
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Post by George on Jan 2, 2006 1:12:07 GMT -5
Praise God that brother Ben saw this and followed up. Please accept my apologies. Suffice it to say I have been going through great personal struggle, much prayer, an incredible amount of reflection and a period of serious growth in my relationship with The Lord recently.
For those reasons I have been rather quiet lately. I did not even realize this question was posed.
Thank you brother Ben for watching my back and doing such a great job of answering.
Yours in Christ,
George
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Post by momtogirls5 on Jan 2, 2006 11:39:51 GMT -5
Thanks to both the brothers for the response. I just posted last night.
Yes Brother Ben, I understand and find it quiet shocking. Disturbing really.
I was looking around last night and found links that Sister Darlene had posted.
This may sound silly, please try to understand the question. How do you know that the KJV is the "Correct" translation? I have been taught that it all goes back to the Hebrew and Greek. The over sites, things left out, those are what the scribes left out in the original texts. According to that thinking, couldn't the scribes have added things in the KJV?
This does not settle with me in my spirit. But I know when I ask my pastor about this, it will be the answer given. If anyone has good reading material on this subject they could recommend that would be helpful.
Searching for truth,
Lenni
PS There is nothing that can reason away Isa. 14:12!
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Post by George on Jan 2, 2006 14:54:02 GMT -5
Sister Lenni, you asked how we know the King James Bible is the correct one? It tells us so in many areas. There you see the verse I mentioned previously about the seventh major English translation of the Bible. You can also see here that God's Word IS preserved, regardless of what some would try to have us believe. In these verses the word prophecy has nothing to do with foretelling the future. It means teaching. No teaching of the Bible is open to any private interpretation. Why? Because in Verse 21 we see that these are not the words of men, they are the very words of God written down by men as directed by the Holy Ghost. Here you can see that if anyone "messes" with the Bible it means serious consequences. Each of the modern perversions of the Bible leave out between 100 and 200 verses, as said before. That is taking away from the words of the book as seen in Rev. 22:19.Adding to is also done but usually in the form of a complete new book such as the Book of Mormon or some other abomination such as that. Although I believe this admonition to not add to the book applies to things such as the Amplified Bible. Don't get me wrong, expansions, expositions and things of that nature are fine. It is when someone rewrites it and calls it a Bible that we are looking for trouble. There is an excellent book titled, "Purified Seven Times" available from Bearing Precious Seed ministries. www.biblebelievers.com It is a wonderful explanation, written by evangelist Bill Bradley, of why the King James Bible is the pure Word of God. I must add in here that someone way back in the beginnig of this thread commented on a Calvary Chapel preacher. They are not the best source for Truth. Calvary Chapel is one of the Churches that teaches it is possible to lose your Salvation. The biggest problem they have is whole Churches full of people who have no idea whether they are saved or not. Yours in Christ, George |
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Post by momtogirls5 on Jan 2, 2006 16:01:53 GMT -5
Thank you Bro. George.
Lenni
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Post by zholden on Jun 4, 2006 0:55:41 GMT -5
I don't mean to beat a dead horse, but I hear so much of the accuracy of the newer translations is because of manuscripts the authors in 1611 did not have ahold of in their time. What of this?
I'm sorry I don't have any better way of saying this, but I am no Bible scholar. I'm in the midst of researching and finding out for myself things like this, so I'm in a kind of "limbo" as it were.
I'm sorry if my questions are stupid or repetitive!
And also, what makes the KJV so much more authoritative? I've heard that it's the only "God-preserved" English language translation. The goal of the KJV was to translate the Bible into the tongue of the day - what's wrong with updating it into the way we speak now? It'd help people to understand it. If a grown adult has only a 2nd grade reading level (and believe me, they are out there), how is he going to have the capacity to read a 400 year old Shakespearean-esque Bible? Words have become outdated, extinct, or have changed meaning altogether in the KJV.
I don't mean to sound impudent at all. Please, do not take it that way. But these questions have been stewing in my head for quite a while pertaining to KJV-onlyism. I love the KJV and think it is a very beautiful translation, but I've come to a point where I'm questioning the KJV-onlyism I subscribed to for so long.
In Christ,
Zoe
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Post by George on Jun 4, 2006 1:53:11 GMT -5
Sister Zoe, go to this web site: www.av1611.orgThere is much information there on both the authority of the King James Bible and the perversions of the so-called modern translations. For right now let me tell you the manuscripts the modern perversions of the Bible are based on (and they are all based on the same ones,) are not only drastically flawed, they are quite a bit "newer" chronologically than the ones the AV were taken from. Every single one of the modern perversions of the Bible were taken from the abomination of a translation work of two men, Westcott and Hort. How can it possibly be that we currently have over 200 versions of the Bible on the market if they all come from the same documents? God's Word DOES NOT change! For lack of time right now I will not give you the verses showing the King James Bible is the pure and preserved Word of God. I am certain someone else may tackle this or if not I will do it tomorrow. Stick to the only true Bible there is: The King James Bible. In Christ, George |
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