art
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Post by art on Jul 5, 2011 23:47:09 GMT -5
Bro. Ben,
Mt. 5: 33-37 and James 5: 12 seem to tell us clearly that Christians should not swear oaths. Isn't the Pledge of Allegiance intended to be a lifetime oath to a worldly kingdom? I have been studying the subject of oaths and I wonder if there is anything in scripture to support saying the pledge. I have said it all my life without giving it a thought until now as I did this study. "The New Unger's Bible Dictionary" says "The prohibition of swearing does not refer to official oaths but to private conduct, for none of the oaths referred to by our Lord are judicial oaths." This quote from Unger's seems to me more like human commentary as I cannot clearly make that distinction from reading the scripture. Any thoughts?
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Post by Brother Ben on Jul 6, 2011 8:38:48 GMT -5
Mat 5:33 Again, ye have heard that it hath been said by them of old time, Thou shalt not forswear thyself, but shalt perform unto the Lord thine oaths: Mat 5:34 But I say unto you, Swear not at all; neither by heaven; for it is God's throne: Mat 5:35 Nor by the earth; for it is his footstool: neither by Jerusalem; for it is the city of the great King. Mat 5:36 Neither shalt thou swear by thy head, because thou canst not make one hair white or black. Mat 5:37 But let your communication be, Yea, yea; Nay, nay: for whatsoever is more than these cometh of evil.
What is the swearing and oath taking of the bible?
The oath is the invoking of a curse upon one's self if one has not spoken the truth:
Mat 26:74 Then began he to curse and to swear, saying, I know not the man. And immediately the cock crew.
Or if one fails to keep a promise:
1Sa 19:4 And Jonathan spake good of David unto Saul his father, and said unto him, Let not the king sin against his servant, against David; because he hath not sinned against thee, and because his works have been to thee-ward very good: 1Sa 19:5 For he did put his life in his hand, and slew the Philistine, and the LORD wrought a great salvation for all Israel: thou sawest it, and didst rejoice: wherefore then wilt thou sin against innocent blood, to slay David without a cause? 1Sa 19:6 And Saul hearkened unto the voice of Jonathan: and Saul sware, As the LORD liveth, he shall not be slain.
That oaths are permissible to Christians is shown by the example of Paul:
2Co 1:23 Moreover I call God for a record upon my soul, that to spare you I came not as yet unto Corinth.
Gal 1:20 Now the things which I write unto you, behold, before God, I lie not.
God Himself swore an oath:
Heb 6:13 For when God made promise to Abraham, because he could swear by no greater, he sware by himself, Heb 6:14 Saying, Surely blessing I will bless thee, and multiplying I will multiply thee.
Consequently when Christ said, “Swear not at all” (Mat_5:34), He was laying down the principle that the Christian must not have two standards of truth, but that his ordinary speech must be as sacredly true as his oath.
So, when James says:
Jas 5:12 But above all things, my brethren, swear not, neither by heaven, neither by the earth, neither by any other oath: but let your yea be yea; and your nay, nay; lest ye fall into condemnation.
I believe he is warning about the same thing. It is better not to swear, if your personal integrity does not stand the test.
Now, let's examine the pledge.
"I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America, and to the republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all."
What is a pledge?
A solemn promise or agreement to do or refrain from doing something.
What is allegiance?
The loyalty of a citizen to his or her government or of a subject to his or her sovereign.
When a citizen of the United States of America pledges to the flag, he or she is promising to uphold the foundational truthes that helped to form our country. If and when, just like our founding fathers, in the course of human events, the foundational truthes changes into that which is against God, then the Christian is to remain faithful the promises of scripture over any "new" policy that would be contradictory to God's word.
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art
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Post by art on Jul 10, 2011 22:53:28 GMT -5
Dear Brother Ben,
Thanks so much for your prompt reply. You have given me good food for thought and Bible study. Honestly, I still have strong misgivings about oaths. I am personally not entirely convinced that Paul's words in 2 Cor. and Gal. necessarily constitute oaths.
I certainly do not dispute that God made an oath. That is clear. But, I don't think the fact that he did means that we should. He can make one hair black or white and we cannot. To swear by himself is certainly his sovereign right.
I love this nation. I think it is the greatest nation on earth today and I agree with what you said about the implicit content of the pledge of allegiance. However, my concern is that the pledge implies much more than it says. The end of James 5:12 says "lest ye fall into condemnation." This may seem something of a stretch but my fear is that someday our liberty in America may be eroded to the point that I decide to take my family elsewhere (if there is anywhere better at that time) and someone will say "I saw him say the pledge of allegiance in church and now he says America isn't free enough and he's leaving". Thus would I fall into condemnation.
I also think of the testimonies of Christians in communist nations who so often were told that their persecution would end if they would swear loyalty to the government in addition to avoiding any illegal activities such as attending churches not run by the state.
If I'm going to err, and I certainly do quite often, I would prefer to err on the side of caution. There are many areas in my life that need improving already and I don't want to add another. I think we will abstain from oaths until I do more study on this subject. No matter how I look at this I keep coming back to Jesus' words in the Sermon on the Mount.
I hate conflict and controversy and I hope you don't think I'm being argumentative. I just really want to get this right. Please post more on this subject to help me if you have time or anyone else please feel free to interject as well. I will continue in prayer and Bible study.
Thank you, Art
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Post by Brother Ben on Jul 11, 2011 8:34:19 GMT -5
No brother Art, I don't take your reply as arguementative. In fact, you may end up being right and we'll have to "scrap" our oaths in the long run. As America continues to turn away from God, it is obvious, though we love what she used to be, we cannot, "pledge allegiance" to her anymore.
Look at the churches, they should be, and are, the thermometer of the heartbeat of America. If Christianity was guiding our nation, she would be different.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 12, 2011 15:17:32 GMT -5
I know what I'm about to say will not be popular with some folks but it is something that needs saying.
Righteousness exalteth a nation (Proverbs 14:34). America had a time of greatness due to the prior righteous stance with respect to Christ and the Word of many of its inhabitants. We were not blessed because we were a Constitutional Republic. Whether a nation is a Republic or a Monarchy is irrelevant (David and Solomon were kings). The biblical form of government is a Monarchy where Christ is King. The republican form of government is a Roman invention.
The head of every man is Christ (1 Corinthians 11:3). Now then we are ambassadors for Christ (2 Corinthians 5:20). We are ambassadors for the "kingdom" of heaven, not the republic of heaven. God's determination is to gather all nations against Jerusalem and defeat them and then set up a throne on mount Zion with Jesus Christ sitting thereon. "Behold, the nations are as a drop of a bucket, and are counted as the small dust of the balance: behold, he taketh up the isles as a very little thing." Isaiah 40:15. Our nation is just part of that drop in the bucket (Isaiah 40:15). It is only pride that would make one believe otherwise.
Yes, we should be faithful to God first and obey the ordinances of man where they don't cross the commandment of God. But how do we justify, as ambassadors of Christ and His kingdom, pledging allegiance to a flag and to the republic for which it stands? No man can serve two masters (Matthew 6:24).
I say not these things to be controversial though they are certainly that. It's just that I don't find anything in the New Testament regarding the church and believers that direct us to follow that way which we presently call "patriotism". Yes, the powers that be are ordained of God. They would not exist otherwise. But God also raised up Pharaoh for this purpose, that He might show His power in him by judging him.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 28, 2011 4:20:42 GMT -5
Greetings christian brethren,
Ben, you may be right about II 1:23. But, I do not think that your references prove that Christians may swear an oath. I am very careful about the words oath and swear. These words seem to say that the swearer is putting himself in a very bad situation if what he has sworn is not true. 1 Corinthians 7:23 Ye are bought with a price; be not ye the servants of men.
I cannot use my father's property as collateral for a loan, or anything else. It does not belong to me.
I looked up the word "affirm" in the Oxford English Dictionary. It said "to solemnly state the truthfulness of something". I do not interpret this to mean putting anything up for collateral to guarantee the truth of what was said. If we pledge $500, we are promising to give the $500. If I have the $500, then I think it is alright for me to pledge it. If one speaks words that one believes to be an oath or swearing, one is wrong(I believe). It is important to remember:
Romans 14:23 And he that is damned if he eat , because he not of faith: for whatsoever is not of faith is sin.
May God grant that the United States of America turn to him and be a free country. 2 Corinthians 3:17 Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.
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Post by robertcolumbia on Aug 28, 2011 20:05:47 GMT -5
I do not swear formal oaths. I gave an affidavit as part of a Court case last year, and I told them that I did not want to swear, and I was allowed to "affirm" the truth of my statements.
I'm a Mennonite, and not swearing is a tenet of our creed, though I'm willing to accept Christians who disagree in good faith.
One argument as to WHY we should not swear is that swearing, in the eyes of the law, is intended to shock your conscience as to the gravity of what you are saying and put you into a highly sensitive mode where you supposedly are more likely to be honest. Christians are supposed to tell the truth all the time, and taking an oath is, in a sense, promising that you will be more honest than normal.
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