Women pastor question

[sister J]

This may of been addressed before, but I was hoping someone, especially the men, may shed some light on this for me.

I know that women are not allowed to preach.

However recently I mentioned this in conversation to a friend after coming across a woman pastor at a conference, and their reply was; "yes, but its ok for a woman pastor to preach to other women". There is a female 'Women's Pastor' at their church who only ministers to other women.

I was a bit taken aback as I had never considered this. To me, just the whole idea of a woman being a 'pastor' is completely unbiblical.

My question is, if a woman is only teaching/preaching to other women does that make it ok for her to be known as 'Pastor'. I would say no, but the conversation I had has left me a bit confused on the issue.

[Guadalupe]

Emeraldsea:
1 Corinthians 14:34 forbids women speaking in church. There are other passages as well but I will let the others pull those out for you.

Nearly all dictionaries both religious and secular define a "Pastor" as
1. A Christian minister having spiritual charge over a congregation or other group.
2. A layperson having spiritual charge over a person or group.
3. A shepherd.

Clearly this is a leadership role over the entire congregation, fellowship, or denomination. The model for a church's leadership echoes the model of the husband and wife. Then there is the similar analogy directed in Ephesians 5:23
For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body.

Considering all of these things, logically women can NOT be pastors as the word "Pastor" is defined. They can help minister to the women (with the word "minister" being a verb, not a title). Unfortunately there has been a lot of muddled thinking on the theology of pastoring in the past century. Some of it is due to the fact that words are not precisely defined and therefore aren't used properly. Muddled thinking = muddled teachings.

[sister J]

Nov 15, 2012 18:34:20 GMT -5 Guadalupe said:

Emeraldsea:
1 Corinthians 14:34 forbids women speaking in church. There are other passages as well but I will let the others pull those out for you.

Nearly all dictionaries both religious and secular define a "Pastor" as
1. A Christian minister having spiritual charge over a congregation or other group.
2. A layperson having spiritual charge over a person or group.
3. A shepherd.

Clearly this is a leadership role over the entire congregation, fellowship, or denomination. The model for a church's leadership echoes the model of the husband and wife. Then there is the similar analogy directed in Ephesians 5:23
For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body.

Considering all of these things, logically women can NOT be pastors as the word "Pastor" is defined. They can help minister to the women (with the word "minister" being a verb, not a title). Unfortunately there has been a lot of muddled thinking on the theology of pastoring in the past century. Some of it is due to the fact that words are not precisely defined and therefore aren't used properly. Muddled thinking = muddled teachings.

Thankyou, this has shed a lot of light on it for me.

[Deleted]

I do think there's a definite precedent in Scripture for women ministering to women though...consider Titus 2. The verses in Titus 2 that apply to women are all about them ministering to one another. However, it is my belief that this should be done, when taking place within the church or a church-sanctioned "event", under the covering and leadership of the men. I have served on two Women's Ministry boards since becoming a Christian. The first one was led completely by the women with no male input---even the Pastor's point of view was mocked and undermined. The second was "led" by the women but covered by the male church board. Any significant decisions were brought to the male church board for final approval. Direction was sought from the elders and Pastor and their say was final---no questions asked and no bad attitudes allowed. I felt comfortable serving on that board for the time that I did...I left the first one as soon as my convictions kicked in. I don't think Titus 2 (or any other Scripture) gives us a precedent for women actually holding the OFFICE of Pastor---or any other leadership, really, within the church.

[sister J]

Nov 16, 2012 10:24:00 GMT -5 @obedientjoy said:

I do think there's a definite precedent in Scripture for women ministering to women though...consider Titus 2. The verses in Titus 2 that apply to women are all about them ministering to one another. However, it is my belief that this should be done, when taking place within the church or a church-sanctioned "event", under the covering and leadership of the men. I have served on two Women's Ministry boards since becoming a Christian. The first one was led completely by the women with no male input---even the Pastor's point of view was mocked and undermined. The second was "led" by the women but covered by the male church board. Any significant decisions were brought to the male church board for final approval. Direction was sought from the elders and Pastor and their say was final---no questions asked and no bad attitudes allowed. I felt comfortable serving on that board for the time that I did...I left the first one as soon as my convictions kicked in. I don't think Titus 2 (or any other Scripture) gives us a precedent for women actually holding the OFFICE of Pastor---or any other leadership, really, within the church.

Yes, that's what I thought. The whole thing of a woman being called "Pastor ........" doesn't sit right with me, even if she is only ministering/teaching to the women. I also think, as you mentioned, it puts a woman in a leadership role in the church, which clearly isn't right.

It's very sad that a church which claims the title of a historically conservative denomination sees nothing wrong with this. But it is unsurprising in these last days. My issue is not about women ministering to one another, as in Titus 2, but rather that the 'title' of 'Pastor' being given to a woman in a church that does not believe women are allowed to preach, justifying it by saying she only teaches women. Ok, but why the 'Pastor' title?

[Guadalupe]

Nov 16, 2012 10:24:00 GMT -5 @obedientjoy said:

I do think there's a definite precedent in Scripture for women ministering to women though...consider Titus 2. The verses in Titus 2 that apply to women are all about them ministering to one another.

Let's read the actual verses from Titus 2 KJV as translated from the Greek and Latin.

3 The aged women likewise, that they be in behaviour as becometh holiness, not false accusers, not given to much wine, teachers of good things;

4 That they may teach the young women to be sober, to love their husbands, to love their children,

5 To be discreet, chaste, keepers at home, good, obedient to their own husbands, that the word of God be not blasphemed.

Titus 2 specifically uses the noun teachers and the verb teach (both come from the Latin: magister) when describing the actions of the older women toward the younger women.

"Teaching" as this is used refers to a mentoring role, not a ministerial one. Again we have to be careful to heed the precise definitions of the words.

"Teaching/mentoring" refers to a transference of skills and attitudes from one who is experienced to one who is inexperienced.

"Ministering" comes from the Latin word that means servant.

[sister J]

thanks Guadalupe