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Post by sister J on Nov 15, 2012 14:47:15 GMT -5
Hi, I have another question that I would really appreciate some light on. (I don't have a local fellowship or saved Husband to take this to.) When someone says: "All our past, present and future sins are forgiven" would that be a true statement according to Gods word? I really don't want to start up any doctrinal debates at all, I am genuinely seeking a biblical answer. My understanding was that when we first come to Christ, we repent of all our past sin, and that as believers we repent of all current known sin, but the future sin part is tripping me up. Something doesn't seem right about saying in a blanket manner that ALL past, present and FUTURE sins are already forgiven, therefore we are safe. I have had great trouble with someone very close to me using this type of statement to justify ongoing unrepentant sin, (they think all their sins are forgiven, past, present and future, and that therefore their salvation is not affected by them willfully commiting gross sin.) I would really appreciate one of the brothers explaining this me better, as I only want to know Gods truth on this. Thankyou  |
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Post by Guadalupe on Nov 15, 2012 18:42:05 GMT -5
I can tell you what we believe.
1 John 1:9 tells us what we must do to receive forgiveness:
If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
The future has not happened yet. Every sin we commit we need to confess to Jesus for remission and forgiveness. The "all unrighteousness" we interpret as being the present and past unrighteousness associated with the specific sins we're confessing right now. It's not coverage of any future sins.
If we think a one time confession does it, then we're taking advantage of this and it tends to have us think we have a "blank check" to do whatever we want in the future just because it's covered by the one confession now. We have to live in such a way that when we do trip up, we can go to Jesus and ask for forgiveness and resolve to follow Him and what He teaches us. Then we go back to renewed efforts to live according to His Word.
This is what my husband and I believe.
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Post by sister J on Nov 16, 2012 9:47:08 GMT -5
I can tell you what we believe. 1 John 1:9 tells us what we must do to receive forgiveness: If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.The future has not happened yet. Every sin we commit we need to confess to Jesus for remission and forgiveness. The "all unrighteousness" we interpret as being the present and past unrighteousness associated with the specific sins we're confessing right now. It's not coverage of any future sins.If we think a one time confession does it, then we're taking advantage of this and it tends to have us think we have a "blank check" to do whatever we want in the future just because it's covered by the one confession now. We have to live in such a way that when we do trip up, we can go to Jesus and ask for forgiveness and resolve to follow Him and what He teaches us. Then we go back to renewed efforts to live according to His Word. This is what my husband and I believe. Thankyou for this. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 16, 2012 10:30:57 GMT -5
I agree with Guadalupe. I think our faith in Jesus gives us an open door to potentially have future sins forgiven...but we must ask for that forgiveness. Another thing to think about is that, regardless of the true answer to the question, a heart that is truly saved and living for the Lord will feel the weight of sin in a way that is impossible without the conviction that comes with salvation. The saved heart desires to be free from the feelings of guilt and shame that sin brings. If we are not feeling the need to ask forgiveness for sin, we need to reevaluate where we really stand with the Lord concerning our salvation.
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Post by Guadalupe on Nov 16, 2012 16:35:46 GMT -5
I agree with Guadalupe. I think our faith in Jesus gives us an open door to potentially have future sins forgiven...but we must ask for that forgiveness. Another thing to think about is that, regardless of the true answer to the question, a heart that is truly saved and living for the Lord will feel the weight of sin in a way that is impossible without the conviction that comes with salvation. The saved heart desires to be free from the feelings of guilt and shame that sin brings. If we are not feeling the need to ask forgiveness for sin, we need to reevaluate where we really stand with the Lord concerning our salvation. Exactly. We don't become perfect just because we become saved. We still sin and make mistakes. It's the conviction to continue to confess these sins to Jesus that reveals the fidelity of your heart. |
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Post by Brother Ben on Nov 16, 2012 18:51:04 GMT -5
EmeraldSea,
Though it is outside of our "human" comprehension that God could and would forgive past, present, and future sin, it must be understood that at salvation, we have been declared righteous based on the merit of Christ and Christ alone. Google and study these doctrinal truths: justification by faith, imputation, regeneration, and adoption. Those who would even begin to think that this merciful and grace-filled act of God is a "blank check" to sin, very well is not saved at worst, or very untaught in the doctrine of salvation. God not only saves from hell, (justification,) but saves from the practice of sin, (sanctification.) It is part of his redemptive plane. Ponder these verses:
Rom. 4
[1] What shall we say then that Abraham our father, as pertaining to the flesh, hath found?
[2] For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God.
[3] For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.
[4] Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.
[5] But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
[6] Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,
[7] Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered.
[8] Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.
Rom. 8
[29] For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
[30] Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.
[31] What shall we then say to these things? If God be for us, who can be against us?
[32] He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things?
[33] Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.
[34] Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.
God will not impute our tresspasses to us because we have been adopted and are now sons, instead, he will empower them to ultimately overcome sin.
John 10
[27] My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
[28] And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
[29] My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.
What about those who stray from the Good Shepherd?
Heb. 12
[5] And ye have forgotten the exhortation which speaketh unto you as unto children, My son, despise not thou the chastening of the Lord, nor faint when thou art rebuked of him:
[6] For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth.
[7] If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not?
[8] But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons.
[9] Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?
[10] For they verily for a few days chastened us after their own pleasure; but he for our profit, that we might be partakers of his holiness.
[11] Now no chastening for the present seemeth to be joyous, but grievous: nevertheless afterward it yieldeth the peaceable fruit of righteousness unto them which are exercised thereby.
"Blank Check" Christians only prove that they neither know, love, or are being changed by the father.
NOTE: This is not an Arminian forum. DO NOT confuse the issue with teaching the unscriptural position of "falling from grace" and losing salvation.
Thank you.
Be encouraged, sister, it's true, God saves, seals, and brings his own to heaven!
Eph. 1
[11] In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:
[12] That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ.
[13] In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
[14] Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.
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Post by sister J on Nov 16, 2012 21:36:00 GMT -5
Thankyou Brother Ben for explaining it and the scriptures supplied. That is very good news. I can see I need to study these truths in depth after years of having no teaching on them. I really am not coming from any particular stance, I am just wanting to see Gods truth on these matters.
I guess where I was getting confused was having a professing Christian convey to me, that because all their past, present and future sins are covered that it was ok for them to committ a very clear sin, with pre-meditation; and that God 'would understand'. They also came from a background of believing because all of a Christians sins are covered, there is no need to repent of any sin in their life because it is 'already forgiven'.
Thankyou again for your help.
(p.s I changed my username to Sister J to avoid any confusion.)
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Post by Guadalupe on Nov 17, 2012 8:30:57 GMT -5
I guess where I was getting confused was having a professing Christian convey to me, that because all their past, present and future sins are covered that it was ok for them to committ a very clear sin, with pre-meditation; and that God 'would understand'. They also came from a background of believing because all of a Christians sins are covered, there is no need to repent of any sin in their life because it is 'already forgiven'. Sister J: Here is the rationale as my husband has understood it from the Bible itself. He does not subscribe to a particular group’s theology but always returns to the Bible time and again to see the whole Biblical picture of any topic. Of course this is something each couple should work out in their own studies so that we can heed Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.My husband has discerned the following and likes the synoptic Gospels on this topic for their recounting of how all the true believers/disciples abandoned Jesus in the final hours before the crucifixion but who when they repented, they were restored. One did not repent because he was not a true believer (Judas Iscariot) and he was lost forever. The best way to read the verses below is to carefully read all of Matthew 26 and all of John 21. Also this account can be found in Mark 14 and Luke 22. Eleven sinned (), repented and were forgiven (). 1 sinned, did not repent and was eternally damned. It’s a fine example of how we are tempted after we start our walk with Jesus. How sometimes we fail in the temptation because of our weak flesh, and how in repenting we are restored in our walk. If we do not repent, we are not restored. My husband sees this as the exercise of our free will in our walk with Jesus and how it affects all of our actions in the present and the future. Our past sins are their unrighteousness are wiped clean off our slate. Matthew 26
55 In that same hour said Jesus to the multitudes, Are ye come out as against a thief with swords and staves for to take me? I sat daily with you teaching in the temple, and ye laid no hold on me.
56 But all this was done, that the scriptures of the prophets might be fulfilled. Then all the disciples forsook him, and fled.
57 And they that had laid hold on Jesus led him away to Caiaphas the high priest, where the scribes and the elders were assembled.
Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, That this night, before the cock crow, thou shalt deny me thrice. 35 Peter said unto him, Though I should die with thee, yet will I not deny thee. Likewise also said all the disciples.
And Peter remembered the word of Jesus, which said unto him, Before the cockcrow, thou shalt deny me thrice. And he went out, and wept bitterly.True followers are restored in their walk after abandoning Christ in His hour and confessing their repentance by a renewed confession of faith. John 21
15 So when they had dined, Jesus saith to Simon Peter, Simon, son of Jonas, lovest thou me more than these? He saith unto him, Yea, Lord; thou knowest that I love thee. He saith unto him, Feed my lambs.
16 He saith to him again the second time, Simon, son of Jonas, lovest thou me? He saith unto him, Yea, Lord; thou knowest that I love thee. He saith unto him, Feed my sheep.
17 He saith unto him the third time, Simon, son of Jonas, lovest thou me? Peter was grieved because he said unto him the third time, Lovest thou me? And he said unto him, Lord, thou knowest all things; thou knowest that I love thee. Jesus saith unto him, Feed my sheep.
18 Verily, verily, I say unto thee, When thou wast young, thou girdest thyself, and walkedst whither thou wouldest: but when thou shalt be old, thou shalt stretch forth thy hands, and another shall gird thee, and carry thee whither thou wouldest not.
19 This spake he, signifying by what death he should glorify God. And when he had spoken this, he saith unto him, Follow me.
20 Then Peter, turning about, seeth the disciple whom Jesus loved following; which also leaned on his breast at supper, and said, Lord, which is he that betrayeth thee?
21 Peter seeing him saith to Jesus, Lord, and what shall this man do?
22 Jesus saith unto him, If I will that he tarry till I come, what is that to thee? follow thou me.The verses about chastisement in Hebrews 12 (thank you Bro. Ben for bringing these up) indicates that we will fail in our walk with Christ from time to time through our own faulty free will judgment and that Christ will need to chastise. Our repentance and renewed efforts to take up our faithful walk again is also mentioned in . Hopefully these tacit examples from the Word itself will help with your study and discernment of the "spirits" you come across in your journey with Jesus. |
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Post by sister J on Nov 17, 2012 9:04:19 GMT -5
Thankyou Guadalupe.
This has also given me a lot to study and seek the Lord on.
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Post by Guadalupe on Nov 17, 2012 10:24:35 GMT -5
Thankyou Guadalupe. This has also given me a lot to study and seek the Lord on. Yes, pray before you seek in the Bible that God will guide you to the correct understanding. A little side note: Peter denied Jesus 3 times and when restoring Peter, Jesus asked Peter if he loved him three times. Interesting point in that since everything that Jesus does has a very deep and important purpose. |
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Post by Brother Ben on Nov 20, 2012 18:55:12 GMT -5
I'm sorry I have misspoke and did not see ALL of Guadalupe's remarks and . . . well. . . put my foot in my mouth. She went on to post
However it is true, as the sister pointed out that Judas was not saved in the first place.
Matt. 7
[15] Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.
[16] Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?
[17] Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.
[18] A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
[19] Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
[20] Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.
If this be true, and it is, let's examine Judas Iscariot:
He is called:
Traitor -
Betrayer -
He sells out Christ -
Thief -
Was callous -
Possessed by Satan (believers cannot be demon possessed)
Son of Perdition (destruction/damnation)
A devil - ,
This is neither a saved man or a true disciple.
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Post by Guadalupe on Nov 29, 2012 17:07:39 GMT -5
If this be true, and it is, let's examine Judas Iscariot: He is called: Traitor - Betrayer - He sells out Christ - Thief - Was callous - Possessed by Satan (believers cannot be demon possessed) Son of Perdition (destruction/damnation) A devil - , This is neither a saved man or a true disciple. We agree. What a terrible weight of sin was on this man and he refused to truly believe in Jesus. He is eternally damned for his unbelief. Don't worry about "foot-in-mouth". We understand as all who are born and live have done that at least once in life. Thank you for the apology - it's a hallmark of a Christian striving to be a true disciple of Jesus. |
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