Some questions on baptism

[sister J]

Hi, I was wondering people's thoughts on the following.

Regarding lukewarm churches that basically annouce they having baptisms next week, and if anyone wants to get baptised to sign up, is this biblical? Are these baptisms valid? I am not suggesting they are not, I am just sorting all this out. Isn't there meant to be evidence of repentance before baptism, and how is the preacher doing the baptising meant to determine this if it is a fairly casual church that rarely preaches repentance and does not intimately know its attendees?

Thoughts anyone?

[Guadalupe]

Dec 2, 2012 20:54:52 GMT -5 sister J said:

Hi, I was wondering people's thoughts on the following.

Regarding lukewarm churches that basically annouce they having baptisms next week, and if anyone wants to get baptised to sign up, is this biblical? Are these baptisms valid? I am not suggesting they are not, I am just sorting all this out. Isn't there meant to be evidence of repentance before baptism, and how is the preacher doing the baptising meant to determine this if it is a fairly casual church that rarely preaches repentance and does not intimately know its attendees?

Thoughts anyone?

emeraldsea, without knowing the pastor or the church I think it's difficult for anyone of us here to answer this. Why not ask the pastor himself? Your question is a valid one.

In our travels, we've found different churches "prep" candidates for baptism differently. Some depend on the Sunday sermons to be the instruction and some have separate classes of instruction leading up to the baptism.

All the churches we've visited asked questions of the person just before the baptism. The three questions they always asked:

• Do you believe in Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ who came to save mankind?
  
• Do you renounce satan and all his evil works?
  
• Do you repent of all your sins and seek forgiveness?
  

Then they baptize in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit (or Ghost).

Ask this pastor your question though. He can best answer that.

[robertcolumbia]

At my church, baptism preparation has been done in separate baptismal preparation classes where the necessary discernment is done. After the process is complete, the person is considered ready and the person does not need to make a separate, formal oral confession of faith before the entire congregation repeating what they already professed. Perhaps we see the act of being baptized as a nonverbal testimony which is sufficient.

Baptisms for us aren't terribly formal. It can be done in a bathtub, swimming pool, creek, or wherever you reasonably want it to be. Some churches may have ornate pools or have candidates wear formal white robes/gowns, but that can get ritualistic and be distracting if done with the wrong intent.

[sister J]

Thanks for the answers. It wasn't one church in particular, it was more the mega type churches or smaller 'hip' type churches that seem to baptise anyone that wants it. When I look in the scriptures it seems to be the way it was done, but in my heart it feels like there should surely be some kind of evidence of repentance first? Plus I'm thinking of when John the Baptist said:

'Then said he to the multitude that came forth to be baptized of him, O generation of vipers, who hath warned you to flee from the wrath to come?' Luke 3:7 John the Baptist didn't indiscriminately baptise.

I'm a little uncomfortable at the thought that multitudes of young people are being baptised because their friends are doing it etc, when in a lot of cases they are not actually born again. But these type of churches seem to present baptism as the entering into the kingdom of God, the sign of becoming a child of God, which leaves a lot with a false belief of thinking they are automatically saved now. I know I'm generalising but I hope you can what I am trying to convey. I am off on this? I am open to more insight on it.

I like the way they do it in your church Robert Columbia.

Just a little concerned and confused.

[Guadalupe]

God's graces are mighty. Time and again I've heard testimonies from people who were baptized young and then later on that baptism bore fruit even though they might have only done it to copy their friends. Commit these people to God in prayers and trust Jesus to work the harvest of their salvation.

Prayer and trusting these people to God is much more productive than worrying about these things.

[emilyg]

Dec 2, 2012 20:54:52 GMT -5 sister J said:

Hi, I was wondering people's thoughts on the following.

Regarding lukewarm churches that basically annouce they having baptisms next week, and if anyone wants to get baptised to sign up, is this biblical? Are these baptisms valid? I am not suggesting they are not, I am just sorting all this out. Isn't there meant to be evidence of repentance before baptism, and how is the preacher doing the baptising meant to determine this if it is a fairly casual church that rarely preaches repentance and does not intimately know its attendees?

Thoughts anyone?

My church does "sign-ups" for water baptisms. They are usually more than just a week away though. For us, this is done so the pastors can see if someone is truly born-again before they baptize them. Usually people become baptized as they join the church, so they take a class on our church that covers why we baptize the way we do. They also have to write their testamonies of Salvation and give it to a pastor. We want to make sure people aren't just doing it because "it's what our church does". New members, and people who will be baptized, are presented to the church a week before they join/are baptized. We do a silent vote...if no one speaks up about an issue that would prevent them from becoming a member/being baptized, we cast a positive vote.

[Tyler's Helpmeet]

The church I was baptised at I think we had to send a short testimony to the pastor. No classes or anything. When went to be baptised they asked the questions and that was that.

[rachel]

My thoughts on whether such baptisms are 'valid' or not -- I think all immersion baptistms are 'valid', but in such situations as you have described, they are often not done with the right spirit or mindset - for example, just done because the person involved thinks it's the 'in' thing to do.

In training to lead at a Christian camp, this question came up. It's a non-denominational camp so sometimes we can't be too forthright with our beliefs (there are a lot of non-Christians who go as campers, so we tend to just stick with the basics of our faith rather than going too in-depth). But we do get children sometimes who claim to have been 'baptised'. In a lot of cases, the child has truly been born-again. In a lot of cases, the child belongs to a Catholic or Anglican family and has been told by their parents that they were baptised but haven't been really. In some cases, though, the child was baptised in one of these 'group baptism sign-up' things because she thought it was the right thing to do, because all her friends were doing it, or a multitude of other reasons. I hate to say it's a lot more common than I'd like to think among young people.

However, I have seen God working through such baptisms. Often the child will think that because they're baptised they have some sort of responsibility to find out what it's all about - the baptism can lead to salvation rather than the other way around. God can still work through baptisms done with the wrong mindset.

In summation, I don't think such baptisms are the right way to go about it, but I don't believe that it's necessary entirely bad when it happens. I think that a pastor should take the time to get to know the prospective baptisee and find out whether s/he is truly sincere in her desire to be baptised and reasons for it.

That said, most of the churches that I have been to will do that - being baptised tends to be a fairly long process involving the pastor and the elders talking to the potential baptisee (and, where the person is young, to their families) and sometimes giving them some extra teaching so that they know exactly what they're doing. Also I've noticed that churches tend to wait until two or three people want to be baptised before announcing a baptismal service or a baptism. Then it tends to be announced in the service or in the newsletter, along with who will be baptised.

I don't think it's a good idea to announce that there's going to be a baptismal service a week in advance and ask people to sign up. This will inevitably lead to 'snap decisions' made by people who may or may not understand what it's all about. If sign-up baptismal services must be had, at least announce them several months in advance and offer classes, or something, to give people a chance to think and learn and pray.

from Rachel.