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Post by rachel on Jun 26, 2013 2:53:11 GMT -5
Firstly, I apologise if this should be in a different category, or if it's a topic which has already been discussed.
Anyway, my family has been working through a number of such issues recently, and one is, of course, Christmas. I just wanted to see what others thought about the topic.
My father says that he doesn't see the point in celebrating Christmas as it isn't when Jesus was born, anyway. But then, he says that he'd be happy to keep the secular celebration bits, like turkey and gifts.
My mother and I, on the other hand, have maintained for several years now that we'd rather do away with all the secular bits and just keep the religious Jesus bits.
I am now of the opinion that I could very well do with not observing it at all. After all, the birth of Jesus is mentioned regularly throughout the year as it relates to various other things which get preached on. And the secular bits are just... weird. Giant socks and gifts and reindeer and far too much food, not to mention the tinsel which takes all year to clear up... there's no point to it.
For most of my family, there is no question about keeping the secular bits. Most of us aren't particularly fond of them; even Dad says that he wouldn't particular care if we got rid of it (although he actually likes turkey. I don't like turkey, it's too dry). I guess the real question here is:
Should we still remember Jesus' birth in December? (When it isn't really the anniversary of His birth and actually a Roman pagan festival?)
After all, the important thing is Easter, of course. Some might argue that we wouldn't have Easter without Christmas, but still, Easter is more important (ignoring the pagan name). It's a little ironic that the secular world places more importance on Christmas than on Easter.
So what do you think?
from Rachel.
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Post by Guadalupe on Jun 26, 2013 7:29:49 GMT -5
As your father is the head of your household and thereby you as well until you are married: this is something for your father to decide. Watch and learn how he reasons through it. Watch how your mother works with him on the decision.
It's not the topic itself that's a learning process but rather learning from your parents behavior on how to conduct such decisions Biblically. This is good training for your own role as a wife and a mother.
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Post by Brother Ben on Jul 3, 2013 12:52:33 GMT -5
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Post by hilja2012 on Jul 3, 2013 18:17:52 GMT -5
peace
my father was head of our house, christian. and made heaps of wrong decisions.
i believe this applys truly to a HOLY father, if he is a holy leader of the house hold than YES. because lot of leaders take people astray.
when Jesus spoke all who were of GOD would love and be amaized by his message all who didn't well, hated it.
sometime the daughter can an in lots of cases is more HOLY than the father. we cannot just assume the father is right. see his connection with God, is he what the New Testament standard is For HOLINESS. all in Jesus Christ.
I want to celebrate my Saviors birthday, not like the pagans. I call it King of kings birthday, and my Children know why we have it. Heaps can be said about this, that is from New Testament. and from my personal experience. we must all individually seek the holy way. old testament says how sons and daughters follow the way of their fathers......we follow the way of Jesus now. we must learn from HIM only. not saying to go against fathers, but truth and love will concur all.
by the way how are you rachel? god bless
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Post by Guadalupe on Jul 4, 2013 8:22:43 GMT -5
Hilja, it's important to remember that God perfects all things, including the decisions of fathers who seek God. Clearly as Rachel implies, her father is seeking God.
Let's avoid jumping to conclusions about fathers. We have to remember that daughters are subject to the parents until they are married. A rebellious child would take your generalizations and use it to disobey her parents. Rachel is not rebellious, but who is to say that another passerby who reads this forum will take your words as an excuse to be disobedient?
We must be careful of our words as Proverbs and the book of James states. Attacking parents or others' upbringing does not bring them truly to the knowledge of the Love of Jesus Christ. It only creates an adversarial kind of life that does not mirror the fullness of the Bible's teachings.
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Post by hilja2012 on Jul 4, 2013 17:37:20 GMT -5
Hilja, it's important to remember that God perfects all things, including the decisions of fathers who seek God. Clearly as Rachel implies, her father is seeking God. Let's avoid jumping to conclusions about fathers. We have to remember that daughters are subject to the parents until they are married. A rebellious child would take your generalizations and use it to disobey her parents. Rachel is not rebellious, but who is to say that another passerby who reads this forum will take your words as an excuse to be disobedient? We must be careful of our words as Proverbs and the book of James states. Attacking parents or others' upbringing does not bring them truly to the knowledge of the Love of Jesus Christ. It only creates an adversarial kind of life that does not mirror the fullness of the Bible's teachings. Peace to you. these are your words. not mine. i said, "not saying go against father" all in Jesus Christ ..... Father or no father if Jesus came now would a child that has brains and heart to see right from wrong WITH JESUS go to heaven if he or she followed an UNGODLY father?( not talking about rachels father at all) . Jesus also says not to put anyone before him... we need to see and do everything with Jesus. And as for rebellious children.. I am talking to a Godly child, so how ever anyone else takes it, they can watch their own step. Children that are Godly and seek God full heartedly are sometimes put of by their Father who are older , put New Testament say Now you do not need a teacher HOLY sprit is going to be your teacher. and she might not want to get married.. we read also in the NT what it says about people getting married .. they focus more on pleasing their new partners... I am not under My father, but am under new Love of Law Jesus Christ. I will respect my father, but not over truths that are reviled by Father in heaven. these days older do not want to learn from young as the phrisees.. they hatd the fact that Jesus taught so well and with POWER. Jesus speaks about that as well. if a father hears something from her daughter he should go and Pray, see what God says. Heavenly Father Bless you all.
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Post by Guadalupe on Jul 6, 2013 13:58:18 GMT -5
Hilja, I see you are trying to explain your views but language is getting in the way. We must be careful when speaking of the Bible that we don't accidentally teach incorrectly from the Bible.
Unless there is abuse, all children are subject to their parents according to the Bible. When the child becomes an adult, that is when the Holy Spirit becomes one's teacher.
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Post by hilja2012 on Jul 6, 2013 17:24:04 GMT -5
Hilja, I see you are trying to explain your views but language is getting in the way. We must be careful when speaking of the Bible that we don't accidentally teach incorrectly from the Bible. Unless there is abuse, all children are subject to their parents according to the Bible. When the child becomes an adult, that is when the Holy Spirit becomes one's teacher.[/quote Peace This sounds like something Muslims teach. I strongly disagree with you & your husband. We cannot tell when or in who Holy Spirit of GOD our father Wants to to work in or be in, children or adults. He wants people To worship in spirit. Didn't say adults. God bless
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Post by Guadalupe on Jul 6, 2013 19:16:25 GMT -5
Hilja, good Christians can disagree without calling names. Perhaps Bro. Ben should enter into this conversation and share about the roles of parents and children, headship and obedience.
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Post by hilja2012 on Jul 7, 2013 0:45:30 GMT -5
Hilja, good Christians can disagree without calling names. Perhaps Bro. Ben should enter into this conversation and share about the roles of parents and children, headship and obedience. Peace to you Sorry, but I am ok. I read the NT. I didn't call you a Muslim just what you said Sounds like their teaching. The head of every women is her man, and head Of every man is Christ, so if look at it other way , Jesus Is the head of women, mans head is Jesus God. We must do as we are doing all to Christ. When children came to Jesus and his disciples didn't like it Jesus said let them come to me and do not Stop them, Many adult do not let children Come to him, how? The answer is very loooooooonnnnnnggg. God bless
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Post by Guadalupe on Jul 7, 2013 20:15:56 GMT -5
Apparently Hilja, you should hear what Bro. Ben teaches on the topic of parents, headship, children and obedience. These teachings come straight from the Bible. Not from Islam.
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Post by hilja2012 on Jul 7, 2013 21:00:46 GMT -5
Apparently Hilja, you should hear what Bro. Ben teaches on the topic of parents, headship, children and obedience. These teachings come straight from the Bible. Not from Islam. peace you do lot of misunderstanding and twisting my words. i am out of this conversation, i do not play word games. and you need to let people comment on posts, and have their say, without you bombing them with your one way views. fellowship not guadalupship please. apparently and Hilja is a patronizing way to start conversation and rude. god bless and have good one
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Post by Guadalupe on Jul 8, 2013 14:53:08 GMT -5
Apparently Hilja, you need to hear what Bro. Ben has to say about the headship, parents, children and obedience. These are teachings from the Bible and do not come from Islam.
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Post by rachel on Apr 19, 2014 3:15:44 GMT -5
Wow. I don't visit for several months and this happens. Goodness.
First, just to make it clear, I was in no way going against my father or questioning his decisions by posting the first post here. I respect his decisions and his Bible study, and I'm honoured that he values my opinion enough to ask it and discuss these things with me. In fact, sometimes he asks me to ask the questions on this forum and get your opinions, too. (He doesn't really use the internet/computer much). He'd mentioned several times that I should post this topic on here. The first couple of paragraphs were just background stuff for the situation, and when I got down to the question, that was the question we're both asking.
(Oh, and on a completely unrelated note, Yes, I do want to get married one day, Hilja. My father is the head of my house and I love and respect him, and I'm thankful I grew up in a house with a good father/head and where I could learn to be a good wife and mother one day. Oh, and I agree with both of you - the father is the head of the house, but the Spirit doesn't just work in adults, we're all God's children. However, if the father is a good spiritual leader, he will listen to what his children/wife say, if they say it well and sensibly [don't try to override his authority] and can back it up with the Bible, and he will study the matter for himself).
And now, back to the matter at hand. Thank you, Brother Ben, for that link, and I will pass it along to my father somehow. I've not read it thoroughly yet but it seems to have a lot of good information and, bearing in mind that I've only skimmed it, I didn't see anything with which I disagreed.
As it happens, in the eight or ten months since I posted that first post, we have discussed this topic a lot, and my father has discussed it with the men at his Bible study group, and he has become very disenchanted with the traditional/"secular" bits of it, too. (He says it all goes back to Babylon. It's surprising how much goes back to the religion of Babylon). That said, we didn't ignore Christmas when it rolled around last year. We had food, and family around (my grandfather, on my mother's side, is an Anglican minister, and since he was staying with us over summer, we couldn't not do anything), and gave presents, although admittedly far fewer than in previous years. My sister and I are both older now and less interested in that sort of thing, although we still watched the Queen's speech, of course.* But I think this year, we probably won't have much of that at all.
*on a side note about the Queen, I'm rather interested with some things she's been saying in the last few speeches. It seems like she's a Christian - like she understands what she's saying and believes in/ loves God. She inserts a lot of religious stuff in there that no other major figure these days could get away with. And my grandfather would say, well, she's the head of the Church of England, of course she's a Christian, but I know that doesn't necessarily follow. But I really think she might be.
Anyway, it's Easter this weekend, and that's another big thing, because so much of Easter is just as pagan and Babylonian as Christmas. Actually, that's the one point where I think the Anglicans might be going a little better than the Baptists in my area, because the Baptist church (and I'm talking about Australian Baptists here... so liberal) just sort of celebrate on Easter Day, buns and eggs and it gets a little silly, and Good Friday isn't so much better, with hot cross buns everywhere you look (Ishtar buns, my father says. Fertility symbols of Babylon. Like you can just put a cross on the things and pretend they're all right now). The Anglicans, for all they're so Catholic in every other way, start off the day by saying "He is risen!". And greet each other like that all day. I like that.
Also, my father says that Easter was rescheduled in the 3rd century by one of the Popes, and he set it to the moons like a pagan festival. It's certainly not at the same time as Passover, is it?
So we're curious (and here's the question, pay attention): Who here observes/celebrates Christmas/Easter? How do you do it? What things do you do? What things do you not do? What is your reasoning behind what you do/don't do?
Thank-you for your time, from Rachel.
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