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Voting
Apr 16, 2005 22:15:31 GMT -5
Post by jurgenweber on Apr 16, 2005 22:15:31 GMT -5
Hello,
Just curious, what does everyone think of voting. Is it wrong for the Christian to vote? I look forward to reading your replies.
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Voting
Apr 18, 2005 12:21:07 GMT -5
Post by Brother Ben on Apr 18, 2005 12:21:07 GMT -5
Bro. Weber, First let me say, welcome to the board. I hope you enjoy your time here. I was just having this discussion with a brother from an Old Order Amish background on Sunday evening. I shared with him my thoughts. I believe in the the year 2005 in which we live, we need to carefully consider what is the thing we need to render to Ceasar these days? And, what is the second mile we are to carry the load? I believe it is not a violation of scripture for me to be a friend of the representatives in my area whether I agree with them or not and support them with my input, prayers, and vote. One might say, "Yes, but what if you vote for the wrong guy?" To which I will rely on the fact that ultimately God sets them up and takes them down, and the heart of the king is in the hand of the Lord. the founding fathers of America set up this form of government to be controled and led by good men and godly men. Therefore, I believe it is my responsibility to give them my participation when I can. I got in from work a little late this year and missed the presidential election altogether. Though disappointed, I knew that regardless to the turn out, the Lord was in control.
A second topic was my involvement with the kingdom of this world as opposed to my commitment to the kingdom of God. If I am going to break all ties and responsibilities with the current government, then I need to be consistent and quit getting my car registered, stop getting my drivers license renewed, quit paying taxes, etc. God, in His providence has set or placed me in America 2005. I believe I need to serve God and my fellow man in the age and place in which I live.
I am still pondering the military service issue, and we will discuss at another time.
For Christ and souls, Bro. Ben
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Voting
Apr 27, 2005 15:51:42 GMT -5
Post by will on Apr 27, 2005 15:51:42 GMT -5
I don't vote, serve in jury duty, or believe in holding government office. As a Christian, my only duties to the government are to obey(when not in violation with the law of God), pay my taxes, and pray for my leaders. I believe that I cannot be involved in the 'politics' of both the kingdom of God and the kingdom of Man. Many Christians tend to be very political, arguing over matters that have little eternal significance(this is referring to stuff like social security, not issues such as abortion or gay marriage). While I don't look down on those who choose to vote and become involved in politics, I don't think that I could do so without compromising my loyalty to Christ.
Just my conviction here.
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Rejoiceevermore
Member
For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; 1 Tim. 2:5
Posts: 67
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Voting
Apr 28, 2005 12:34:18 GMT -5
Post by Rejoiceevermore on Apr 28, 2005 12:34:18 GMT -5
Bro. Will, you can be easily excepted in to a Russian Independent Baptist church . They believe that a Christian can not bear arms, no voting, no involment with the government. Russian baptists and some groups of Menonites have a lot of semilarities. The big semilarity is believing in loosing your salvation. Since I grew up in a Russian church I agree with a lot what they teach, except I don't think it's wrong to vote and since I've been married and going to an IFBC I believe in eternal security. God Bless, Amy
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Voting
May 2, 2005 13:55:40 GMT -5
Post by jurgenweber on May 2, 2005 13:55:40 GMT -5
Hello Everyone,
I do not vote nor do I believe it is proper although I do respect the beliefs of others. I was recently talking to another Mennonite and he made an interesting comment. How can a Christian claim to be nonresistant and vote for President who is the commander in chief of the US army? I don't think the two mix very well. As Christians, we are in the world but not of the world, so should be really be concerning ourselves with the politics of this world?
just a thought,
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Voting
May 3, 2005 10:33:05 GMT -5
Post by Sojourner on May 3, 2005 10:33:05 GMT -5
To that i would have to ask this: Does being IN the world and not OF the world means that we have no active participation in what goes on. If we are not to vote because it is participation in the world...then should we not be involved in the public marketplace also? Businesses have only one goal...to make a profit, that is hardly a Christian virtue, is it?
I realize i may be blowing your argument out of proportion, but that was some what intentional.
Myself, i do vote and i am a bit of a political junkie; yes, i am one of those geeks who likes to watch C-Span and political debate shows and often find myself yelling at the TV even though they can't hear me. I do believe we as believers should be making our voice heard in the public arena of ideas...if not, where would our country be? The liberal left has way too much control already; and that is with Christians having a pretty good sized voice. If we were go give up our voice, where would this country go?
Just my 2 cents bro bobby
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Voting
May 4, 2005 13:09:33 GMT -5
Post by jurgenweber on May 4, 2005 13:09:33 GMT -5
When someone votes, he or she is participating in the government. As Christians, we are not to participate in the government of this world; separation of church and state. As for the marketplace or businesses, they are not part of the government nor related to the government.
just my conviction,
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Voting
May 4, 2005 18:40:40 GMT -5
Post by Sojourner on May 4, 2005 18:40:40 GMT -5
I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree on this one because i believe that it is a bit isogetical to say that to be "in the world but not of the world" means not participating in the political process of the public square of opinion. We could always go back to the fact of what if our founding fathers would have said the same thing? No, i don't believe they were all Christians...but i do believe that there were some very Godly men who helped found this country. They didn't see a need for seperation of church and state.
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Voting
May 5, 2005 12:35:56 GMT -5
Post by Brother Ben on May 5, 2005 12:35:56 GMT -5
When some one: votes, get a drivers license, gets a social security card, pays taxes, etc. ad nausium, we are participating in the government system, even funding it.
"And he said unto them, Render therefore unto Caesar the things which be Caesar's, and unto God the things which be God's." Luke 20:25
"Wherefore [ye] must needs be subject, not only for wrath, but also for conscience sake." Rom. 13:5 "Render therefore to all their dues: tribute to whom tribute [is due]; custom to whom custom; fear to whom fear; honour to whom honour." Rom. 13:7
Separation of church and state is oft misquoted and seldom understood.
Since this was Jefferson’s view concerning religious expression, in his short and polite reply to the Danbury Baptists on January 1, 1802, he assured them that they need not fear; that the free exercise of religion would never be interfered with by the federal government. As he explained:
"Gentlemen,-The affectionate sentiments of esteem and approbation which you are so good as to express towards me on behalf of the Danbury Baptist Association give me the highest satisfaction. . . . Believing with you that religion is a matter which lies solely between man and his God; that he owes account to none other for his faith or his worship; that the legislative powers of government reach actions only and not opinions, I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should “make no law respecting an establishment of religion or prohibiting the free exercise thereof,” thus building a wall of separation between Church and State. Adhering to this expression of the supreme will of the nation in behalf of the rights of conscience, I shall see with sincere satisfaction the progress of those sentiments which tend to restore to man all his natural rights, convinced he has no natural right in opposition to his social duties. I reciprocate your kind prayers for the protection and blessing of the common Father and Creator of man, and tender you for yourselves and your religious association assurances of my high respect and esteem." (Jefferson, Writings, Vol. XVI, pp. 281-282, to the Danbury Baptist Association on January 1, 1802.)
Businesses (not all) apply for licensing, abide by government imposed standards, pay taxes, etc. We are integrally associated with government. God uses governement for His purposes, i.e., "And it came to pass in those days, that there went out a decree from Caesar Augustus, that all the world should be taxed. ([And] this taxing was first made when Cyrenius was governor of Syria.)" Luke 2:1,2
"I exhort therefore, that, first of all, supplications, prayers, intercessions, [and] giving of thanks, be made for all men; For kings, and [for] all that are in authority; that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and honesty. For this [is] good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour; Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth." I Tim. 2:1-4
Just some thoughts, Bro. Ben
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Voting
May 6, 2005 15:36:42 GMT -5
Post by Sojourner on May 6, 2005 15:36:42 GMT -5
I concur with both of you. As for the "seperation of church and state" argument, i think this has been one of the worst lies that the citizens of our nation has fallen for.
Our Founding Fathers presented the "Establishment clause" that would not allow for the government to dictate relgion or a specific belief over another...the political left has turned it into a "seperation" that says religion has no role in the public arena of ideas or in our government. And sadly, it looks like many of the religious right are falling for this same hoax by claiming it is a sin to be involved in our government.
I have to agree with my Brother here who said that we are called to be salt and light, and i don't recall seeing any limits on this command being given by the Lord; not even in the footnotes of the NIV Study Bible ;D .
I will not criticize anyone for not wanting to participate in our government and election process...that is your opinion, and i will respect you for it. As for me, i'm going to go watch a little C-Span so that i can get ready to yell at the politcal debates on Fox News Channel later, lol.
in HIS grip bro bobby
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Voting
May 12, 2005 8:03:07 GMT -5
Post by ruth on May 12, 2005 8:03:07 GMT -5
I voted in our election last week here in England because my parents wanted me to but i am not sure i will in the future.
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