Church of Christ beliefs?

[MrsDeweySmith]

Can someone give me direction for seeking out the information myself, or hit me with the highlights as it were, of the basic belief/doctrines of the Church of Christ? No, we aren't converting Just have a couple friends who attend and even they aren't totally up on their own faith structure there.

Sister Deanna

[George]

Sister Deanna, the largest single problem I am aware of with the Church of Christ is their belief in Baptismal regeneration. That is not a scriptural position. It actually places them in the form a being a cult in that this belief is not in line with orthodox Christianity.The Bible clearly teaches regeneration is provided by the Holy Spirit.

One thing you can use as a sort of gage to determine if people are of the Church of Christ persuasion is their statement they belong to the one true Church, the Church which was started by Jesus Christ. Unfortunately a lot of their doctrine shows just the opposite.

Yours in Christ,
George Groce

[MrsDeweySmith]

One thing you can use as a sort of gage to determine if people are of the Church of Christ persuasion is their statement they belong to the one true Church, the Church which was started by Jesus Christ.

Thank you for your quick response, Bro George. I have heard that comment, about one true church, a few times as well. I did come right out and ask what they believed as far as Salvation, works, etc. to get a basic feel for where they are at, and while I didn't follow their thinking on 'losing your Salvation' I didn't see much else there...at least nothing outright that even they could pin down.

Thank you again! This has been a day for several insights from you on my behalf. Much for my spirit to dwell on and take to the Lord. I appreciate that.

Sister Deanna

[George]

Sister Deanna, thank you for the kind words. the point about them believing one can lose their salvation is one I am not familiar with. I did not get past the baptismal regeneration and the one true Church. this one true Church sounds like the one warned about in Revelation to me.

The Bible does not teach anywhere that one can lose their salvation. It is rather interesting to me that the independent, fundamental Baptists are about the only ones who hold to this scriptural Truth. Of course one thing fundamental Baptists are known for is reading our Bibles. We also believe the Bible is the sole authority for Faith and practice.

I mentioned Romans 8:9 to you in the last message. It is possibly the most important verse in the Bible for teaching eternal security.

(Romans 8:9) But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

If a person has ever experienced any kind of even a small twinge of guilt at committing sin that is evidence of the Holy Spirit of God dwelling in them. The Bible teaches the Holy Spirit indwells us at the time of salvation.

(Ephesians 4:30) And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.

Here is another one. If so be that the Holy Spirit has indwelled us we can see from this verse we are sealed unto the day of redemption. The day of redemption is either our physical death when we go to heaven or the day of the rapture when all the believers will be redeemed. Then of course there is the following:

(1 John 5:13) These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.

In this particular case the words translated in English as, "that ye may know," mean to be assured of. Look at the requirement mentioned here. All we have to do to be assured of, to know with certainty, that we have eternal life is to believe on the name of the Son of God. that is said twice in that one verse. All that is required is to accept Jesus Christ as personal Saviour.

Oh by the way, "eternal" in that verse means ETERNAL. If something is eternal how can we lose it? The most famous verse in the Bible (John 3:16) also says all we have to do is believe and we will have everlasting life. Everlasting and eternal are one and the same.

There is nothing in the Bible that counters those verses. The unfortunate thing about Churches who teach this heresy as doctrine is they have a whole lot of people sitting in pews not knowing if they are saved or not. A person cannot do the Work of the Lord if they are unsure of their salvation.

(John 15:8) Herein is my Father glorified, that ye bear much fruit; so shall ye be my disciples.

What is the fruit of a Christian? It is other Christians. How on earth can a person who is not certain of their own eternal security possibly even begin to attempt to lead another to a Christ they do not know? It can't be done!

Yours in Christ,
George Groce

[MrsDeweySmith]

Goodness...I have certainly put my foot in the mess of issues I am not qualified to partake in now. This is the email received by my friend, sent through a small private list we are on, not sent privately to me as I had spoken with her.

To my shame as a Christian, I am out of my league in discussion. I know what I believe, but to quote chapter and verse, debate it line by line, I cannot do I'm too much baby in Christ for that. Anyone care to share their thoughts?

Sister Deanna

>>I am the one who posed this question, so, I am sure this response is sent toward me, and to the whole list. I am reluctant to say very much about doctrinal issues on this list because I am very far away from most of you, doctrinally. That alreeady gives me two strikes...being NON plain, and being a member of the Church of Christ, which is notoriously NON-Calvinistic.

In the matter of regeneration, I do not believe there is any man/woman, now or then, who could impart just EXACTLY HOW the HS manages to regenerate the believer. With that said, I will tell you, you will not find it in my post, either! haha

On the matter of baptism, I have much to say, and I will say it. It is my duty. Please do not be offended. If you want to discuss what I post, please ask the moderators whether they want it on or off list. This is not a debate list. Email me privately and we can discuss it.

~~Debra
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Water Baptism
by Debra Reitz

WATER baptism is not a method of
salvation, in and of itself. There is NOTHING in the water which
saves. It is NOT a work done by the person being baptized, nor is
it a work of the one doing the baptizing...so, what is it?

In looking at the passages dealing with baptism, we must first
look at the command of "being baptized." Without comment on the
salvational part, who commanded it, and who is commanded to be
baptized?

Matthew 28
19Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the
name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

20Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded
you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world.
Amen.

The above passage is what we call the "great commission." The
Apostles were commanded to go, to teach, to baptize in the name of
the Father, Son and HS, teaching the people to do and observe all
that was commanded of the Apostles, which includes go, teach and
baptize...which is just a part of "whstsoever I have commanded you."

In the 2nd Chapter of Acts, when Peter was telling the people just
what they had done to the man they did not know was the Saviour,
when they realized and were convicted of their own sin, they asked
Peter what they needed to do. Peter immediately put into force that
great commission we just read and told them to be baptized for the
remission of their sins. This scenario is repeated throughout the
book of conversions, or Acts of the Apostles.

That leads us directly into our controversy. The
idea that baptism is for the remission of sins. Which leads me to
this point...it is not baptism which literally saves us, it is
baptism which cleanses us from sin making us able to stand before
God and literally BE saved. God cannot, will not, save the
unclean. WE MUST BE CLEAN FROM SIN TO BE SAVED. Baptism is a
submission to the operation of the Holy Spirit upon our very souls,
marking us with the "seal of the heart" like that of the "seal in
the flesh" of physical Israel.

OK, now DEBRA, prove that one! OK, let me let the Word speak to
it.....

Colossians 2
8Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit,
after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and
not after Christ.

9For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

10And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all
principality and power:

11In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made
without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by
the circumcision of Christ:

12Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him
through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from
the dead.

This is ONE of the purposes of baptism. I can list 20 more things
which baptism fulfills. So to say we are saved by baptism is to NOT
understand salvation at all. It is part of our getting ready to be
saved in the day when salvation literally comes. We walk as saved
people, but the actual and literal day of salvation will be when it
is literally placed in our hand and is no longer a promise...even
though with God a promise is as good as having in hand. We have
full confidence in Him.

Baptism is an EXPRESSIOON of our MENTAL ASSENT...it is what proves
what it is that we think and declare we BELIEVE. This is
where some see baptism expressed as an expression of our FAITH..just
as you pointed out, we are saved by grace THROUGH faith...this is
but ONE expression of our faith: our faith in the operation of God upon our soul:

Galatians 3

26For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.

27For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put
on Christ.

28There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free,
there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ
Jesus.

29And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs
according to the promise.

The above shows just how we express our belief or faith, and it
also shows some of the other things baptism accomplishes....we
become clothed in Christ, we express our faith IN Christ, and We
become HEIRS of Abraham. ALL of these things are accomplished in
our burial...and NOT ONE thing about baptism is the WORK of any
person being baptized. All of these things are DONE in the heavenly
realms, in the spirital things, by God Himself. We are merely
submissive to the great operation done upon our soul.

[MrsDeweySmith]

Sorry...I should probably say that I do see much agreement in what she commented on, and one of her original comments to me was "doesn't anyone believe in baptism for remission of sins anymore?"


Maybe with some of our other conversations, I have just put things in that weren't there. There are some churches that seem to be teaching something "special" in that baptismal water and place the importance on that act, as opposed to seeking the Lord, true repentance, etc. I believe you should be a changed man *before* entering the water, not because of or after the water, kwim?

Sister Deanna

[benshelpmeet]

Amen that's exactly right. We have always been taught that baptism is your first act of obedience after one recieves Christ as their personal Saviour. It is a picture of sorts to show others that you have recieved Christ and been Born again.

Baptism is very important but if you die before you get baptized you still go to heaven because putting your faith in Christ is what saves you not baptism.

Good to see you back on Deanna. I've missed you!


Love your sister in Christ, ~ Darlene ~

[Brother Ben]

Interesting note, Alexander Campbell, founder of the group called, The Church of Christ wrote the following article "proving" that Baptist churches can trace their doctrines and practices all the way back to the time of the early church.

Read and enjoy,
Bro. Ben

www.tbaptist.com/aab/acampbell.htm

It's so funny, well actually it isn't, I spent the day with my co-worker who is C of C. He is so bent on the name of the church having to be "church of Christ," that he can't even hear truth about the issue. Strange, but the arguement is the same on the Mormons gave me about their "cult" being called, "the church of Jesus Christ of latter-day saints." False doctrines make strange bedfellows.

The groups called, "church of Christ," is one of the Restorationist churches of the 1800's. The others are:
Mormons, Joseph Smith
Seventh-day Adventists, Ellen G. White
Jehovahs (false) Witnesses, Charles Taze Russell, and
Christ of Christ Science also known as Christian Science (Mary Baker Eddy)

The Restorationists all believed the "church" Jesus started had fallen into "total" apostasy and that it was their duty to "Restore" the church. Unfortunately they didn't stick to the scripture as their final authority.

All these were deviant in their doctrines.

I'll try to wirte more later

[restored]

Bro. Ben,

I would be interested to know more about the Seventh Day Adventist. I noticed it was started by a women, is that right? I am just curious. Allen and I are always interested in knowing about other "cults" most aren't even worthy of being called a religion. Allen has learned alot about the Mormons and the Jehovah (false) Witness, but we haven't heard anything about SDA. I like the false part that was good. Any good info you have or a good link would be great.

Thanks,
Heather

[Brother Ben]

Water Baptism
by Debra Reitz: Examined.

Editor’s Note: The following article was posted by Sister Deanna on our discussion board. I took the same article and interjected my own notes in bold.
Bro. Ben

....................Begin Debra Comments.................

WATER baptism is not a method of
salvation, in and of itself. There is NOTHING in the water which
saves. It is NOT a work done by the person being baptized, nor is
it a work of the one doing the baptizing...so, what is it?

One of my church of Christ co-worker discussed this with me one day. He said it doesn’t matter “who” baptizes you, just that you do it by faith. So I asked him if a Buddhist monk or a Satanist could baptize you into Christ, to which he replied, “Yes.” John the Baptist baptized, the disciples baptized, and Paul baptized, so lost pagan heathen can baptize also?

In looking at the passages dealing with baptism, we must first
look at the command of “being baptized.” Without comment on the
salvational part, who commanded it, and who is commanded to be
baptized?

Matthew 28
19Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the
name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

20Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded
you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world.
Amen.

The above passage is what we call the “great commission.” The
Apostles were commanded to go, to teach, to baptize in the name of
the Father, Son and HS, teaching the people to do and observe all
that was commanded of the Apostles, which includes go, teach and
baptize...which is just a part of “whstsoever I have commanded you.”

In the 2nd Chapter of Acts, when Peter was telling the people just
what they had done to the man they did not know was the Saviour,
when they realized and were convicted of their own sin, they asked
Peter what they needed to do. Peter immediately put into force that
great commission we just read and told them to be baptized for the
remission of their sins. This scenario is repeated throughout the
book of conversions, or Acts of the Apostles.

I notice Debra, because of the church of Christ slant on Bible doctrine, was quick to note that Peter told them to be baptized for the remission of their sins, BUT, she did not mention that he told them to repent. To keep things simple, repentance is simply to turn around from unbelief to belief resulting in salvation. Notice what Jesus said,
“He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. (John 3:18) He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him. “ (John 3:36)

According to the Lord Jesus Himself, it is repentant belief that gives on eternal life. It is not prepping them for it, repentant belief GIVES one eternal life, then.

Furthermore in the Book of Acts we have this testimony:

“And he commanded us to preach unto the people, and to testify that it is he which was ordained of God to be the Judge of quick and dead. To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.” Acts 10:42,43

Does the Bible bear witness to belief alone making one justified, declared just, in the eyes of God?

Rom 4:1 What shall we say then that Abraham our father, as pertaining to the flesh, hath found?
Rom 4:2 For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God.
Rom 4:3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.
Rom 4:4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.
Rom 4:5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
Rom 4:6 Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,
Rom 4:7 Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered.

In verse three we see that Abraham’s belief was counted to him as righteousness unto justification in the eyes of God. Paul goes on to clarify that God justifies the ungodly through repentant belief, before they are made clean, in order to MAKE them clean. This will be pertinent to understand as you read Debra’s following points.


That leads us directly into our controversy. The
idea that baptism is for the remission of sins. Which leads me to
this point...it is not baptism which literally saves us, it is
baptism which cleanses us from sin making us able to stand before
God and literally BE saved. God cannot, will not, save the
unclean. WE MUST BE CLEAN FROM SIN TO BE SAVED. Baptism is a
submission to the operation of the Holy Spirit upon our very souls,
marking us with the “seal of the heart” like that of the “seal in
the flesh” of physical Israel.

Debra is trying to sound logical and orthodox here, but the fact is, this is deviant doctrine made up by Campbell and the early church of Christ as they forged their NEW religion. Orthodox, historic Christianity has always taught that one is made clean by placing saving faith or belief on the finished work of Jesus on the Cross. Here is a passage to speak to that. I will say in advance, if you use this, the church of Christ person will quickly say, “That was before the cross!” but we must remember, those who came to Christ before the Cross were saved already, CLEAN! Notice what the repentant thief on the cross said,

“And he said unto Jesus, Lord, remember me when thou comest into thy kingdom. And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise.” Luke 23:42,43

Where was this man’s PRE-SALVATION baptismal cleansing? There was none, because there is NO SUCH THING! This is an afront to the finished work of the cross.




OK, now DEBRA, prove that one! OK, let me let the Word speak to
it.....

Colossians 2
8Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit,
after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and
not after Christ.

9For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

10And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all
principality and power:

11In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made
without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by
the circumcision of Christ:

12Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him
through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from
the dead.

This is ONE of the purposes of baptism. I can list 20 more things
which baptism fulfills. So to say we are saved by baptism is to NOT
understand salvation at all. It is part of our getting ready to be
saved in the day when salvation literally comes. We walk as saved
people, but the actual and literal day of salvation will be when it
is literally placed in our hand and is no longer a promise...even
though with God a promise is as good as having in hand. We have
full confidence in Him.

This is another error of the church of Christ group. They see salvation as something you are going to get WHEN you die or are raptured. Is that what the Bible teaches?

“Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.” John 5:24

Let’s have a little quiz here.
1. What must one do in order to obtain everlasting life? Believe, only!
2. What does the KJV word “hath” mean in modern English? Has!
3. When does one “have” everlasting life? Now! Paul said we are seated in the heavenlies
“And hath raised us up together, and made us sit [present tense] together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:” Eph. 2:6

Is salvation just a future thing to be obtained?

“Whom having not seen, ye love; in whom, though now ye see him not, yet believing, ye rejoice with joy unspeakable and full of glory: Receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls.” I Peter 1:8,9

“Simon Peter, a servant and an apostle of Jesus Christ, to them that have obtained like precious faith with us through the righteousness of God and our Saviour Jesus Christ:” II Peter 2:1
And what of this “seal” that we have, like Israel, till we receive the promise?

“Now he which stablisheth us with you in Christ, and hath anointed us, is God; Who hath also sealed us, and given the earnest of the Spirit in our hearts.” II Cor. 1:21,22

Debra said:

Baptism is a
submission to the operation of the Holy Spirit upon our very souls,
marking us with the “seal of the heart” like that of the “seal in
the flesh” of physical Israel.

“Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?” Acts 10:47

Baptism is an EXPRESSIOON of our MENTAL ASSENT...it is what proves
what it is that we think and declare we BELIEVE. This is
where some see baptism expressed as an expression of our FAITH..just
as you pointed out, we are saved by grace THROUGH faith...this is
but ONE expression of our faith: our faith in the operation of God upon our soul:

Galatians 3

26For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.

27For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put
on Christ.

28There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free,
there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ
Jesus.

29And if ye be Christ’s, then are ye Abraham’s seed, and heirs
according to the promise.

The above shows just how we express our belief or faith, and it
also shows some of the other things baptism accomplishes....we
become clothed in Christ, we express our faith IN Christ, and We
become HEIRS of Abraham. ALL of these things are accomplished in
our burial...and NOT ONE thing about baptism is the WORK of any
person being baptized. All of these things are DONE in the heavenly
realms, in the spirital things, by God Himself. We are merely
submissive to the great operation done upon our soul.

No, Debra, baptism is not an “expression of our mental assent,” but the Bible, God’s word and final authority says,

“Which [those dead in trespasses and sin] sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.
The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:” I Peter 3:20,21

One of the VERY scriptures they use to show that you need to be baptized to be saved shows that baptism does not put away the filthiness of the flesh. They just told us that baptism makes you clean so you can be saved, and God’s word teaches us otherwise.

The church of Christ was a reactionary religious movement started on error and has moved from error to greater error. This kind of thinking is the seedbed of classic “cult” doctrines likened unto the Mormons, the Jehovah’s (false) Witnesses, and the Seventh Day Adventists.

“Thus saith the LORD, Stand ye in the ways, and see, and ask for the old paths, where is the good way, and walk therein, and ye shall find rest for your souls. But they said, We will not walk therein. “ Jer. 6:16

I kinda threw this together, and if I have been unclear please feel free to ask, and I will go back and clarify. Lord bless you.

Bro. Ben

[manasseh]

September 26, 2005 AD

Brother Ben,

This brings about and interesting topic concerning the water baptism. Would a water baptism by a false convert make any difference to the sacriment of the receiver? My belief is no, it doesn't matter even if a false convert does the ceremonial water baptism, it is the partaker that has meet the first commandment of being baptised by water, and who does the actual water baptism has no effect to the new believer in Christ Jesus. Would I be correct from your understanding?

This being the case, then the Church of Christ response that it doesn't matter who baptises you would have a certain measure of truth to it, as do all of Satan's twisted devices do of course.

Genesis 17:1 And when Abram was ninety years old and nine, the LORD appeared to Abram, and said unto him, I am the Almighty God; walk before me, and be thou perfect.

Manasseh

[George]

Sister Deanna, I believe it to be very important to understand there are two words that are translated as "baptize" in the English language and there are two distinct forms of baptism spoken of in the New Testament.

The one ( and I will not attempt to overwhelm anyone including myself with the Greek words) literally means to immerse and the other means to change. To understand this in a sort of practical sense let me explain it by saying to compare it with the process of changing a cucumber into a pickle. First it must be immersed. After a while it changes. That is the easiest way I have found to understand the use of the two different words in the New Testament.

Biblically we have to look at the form of baptism practiced by John the Baptist and the type of baptism taught and practiced by our Lord and Saviour, Jesus Christ.

(Mark 1:4) John did baptize in the wilderness, and preach the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins.

(Mark 1:8) I indeed have baptized you with water: but he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost.

It is only through the working of the Holy Ghost that we can achieve remission of sins. We have to become convicted of the need for change. That is the duty of the Holy Ghost. The Holy Ghost comes on a person, or indwells a person at the time of Salvation. Not before! A person cannot be cleansed of sin prior to Salvation.

(Matthew 26:28) For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.

These are the very words of our Lord and Saviour, Jesus Christ. He has told us it is by His blood we achieve the remission of sins. We are not covered by His blood until the time of Salvation.

(Acts 10:43) To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.

Let us take a very quick look at that verse: it says that we must first BELIEVE and after that we receive the remission of sins. Look at the statement in that verse: whosoever believeth (that is the state of believing meaning it is a done deal, we already believe), SHALL receive... Shall has the sense of futurity here. It means we will only receive the remission of our sins after we believe because as Jesus clearly said in Matthew 26:28, it is His blood that provides for the remission of sins.

As Bible-believing, Bible-teaching, fundamental Baptists we believe that God's Holy Word is inerrant. It is without flaw. We also believe God's Holy Word to be the SOLE authority for both faith and practice. Because of these things we also believe the Bible cannot and does not contradict himself. In reality the only thing needed to counter the claim that we have to be clean from sin in order to be saved. There is no way that can happen. How can that be when the Bible also clearly teaches that even after we are saved we will continue to commit sin? If these folks believe you have to be clean of sin to be saved then Heaven is an awfully empty place!

Yours in Christ,
George Groce

[Brother Ben]

Steven asked:

Would a water baptism by a false convert make any difference to the sacriment of the receiver? My belief is no, it doesn't matter even if a false convert does the ceremonial water baptism, it is the partaker that has meet the first commandment of being baptised by water, and who does the actual water baptism has no effect to the new believer in Christ Jesus. Would I be correct from your understanding?

I would have to say, no, this is not correct. In some sense, if a preacher of the Gospel turned out to not be unsaved, and he baptized converts, some would want to be rebaptized and some wouldn't. They would have to go according to their conscience. However, the Biblical pattern is believers baptizing believers so I would have to insist that one be re-baptized to be consistent with scripture. How far do we go with an exception till we are teaching something unorthodox ourselves.

You also noted:

it is the partaker that has meet the first commandment of being baptised by water

Yes, it is the partaker that meets the first command to a new believer, but baptism is a "public" testimony. I can't see someone, spiritually, get saved, that is between them and the Lord, I can only here their profession, but I can see them get baptized. If the "public" knows that something was amiss in the life of the baptizing minister, again according to conscience of the individual, I would think it best to "do it right."

Just my thoughts,
Bro. Ben

P.S. If baptism wasn't important, then it was pointless for Jesus to have John baptize Him. Baptism is as important as the Lord's Supper. One does not want to partake of that in an improper manner or it could be fatal. The ordinances are ordained of God and should be kept holy.

[George]

If baptism wasn't important, then it was pointless for Jesus to have John baptize Him. Baptism is as important as the Lord's Supper. One does not want to partake of that in an improper manner or it could be fatal. The ordinances are ordained of God and should be kept holy.

Amen, Amen and Amen!!!


Yours in Christ,
George Groce