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Post by Tammy on Mar 14, 2008 0:46:53 GMT -5
That is a wonderful story, and a great testimony to God's faithfulness to protect His own! It is obvious that that man lived where no one locked their doors, as their dwellings probably had doors that were impossible to lock. I think he was right to do as the Indians did, as he was living among them. I have a story for you, too. A missionary's wife was sitting in their locked van outside the church's building, tending to her baby before entering the church service. She noticed a man on the sidewalk as he walked by, casually pause, then duck down right next to the van. To her great surprise, she watched as the lock popped up, and this stranger was opening the door! As she thought for a moment about what she should do, she spied two policemen walking up the other side of the street - what timing! She flung the door open and called to the officers, who quickly came to the rescue of her and her little one, not to mention whatever things the stranger was about to steal from them. One more true story - indulge me. A family had just piled into their vehicle, all ready to head out for church. The meeting was going to be held some 45 minutes drive from their home, but they made the trip happily anticipating the wonderful fellowship and worship they always experienced with this church family. As they pulled out, the husband nodded at some rough teenage boys sitting on the curb close to the house. He had spoken to some of them about the Lord, but so far none had received Christ as their saviour.... The worship service was indeed a blessing that evening, and they lingered afterwards to talk to the pastor and other members. At last, they started their journey home, well after dark. Upon arriving, they were startled to see that they had left their garage door wide open, all 3 1/2 hours they had been gone! They pulled the vehicle into the garage, and the husband left his family inside while he checked the garage, house and yard for signs of entry and to see if anyone was there. Not a sign. His tools, all laid out in full view, were untouched, and the house had not been entered! Amazed, they thanked the Lord for His protection of their home and family, in spite of their error of having left the doors wide open, and in spite of having been seen leaving by those unsaved teenage boys. Both of those stories are my very own experiences here in Guatemala. God's hand of protection is on His own according to His will, whether we lock our doors, or not. Sometimes, in His sovereignty, He allows bad things to happen to His people, too. It's all in His hands. Here, the people will try a door, just to see if it is unlocked - I've seen them do it. Suppose a boy is only curious. He checks the door handle of a car and - lo and behold - it's unlocked. He peeks in. There's some interesting stuff in there. Now he is tempted. Now he is about to become a thief. To the simply curious, a locked door is enough to keep them from committing a crime. A "serious" thief WILL get in, whether locked or not, so it really does not matter. I do not think locking the door is against Scripture.
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Post by Tammy on Mar 14, 2008 0:58:54 GMT -5
Quote:Two, if someone were to come into my house with the obvious intent to harm me or my little ones, could I not injure him to keep him from committing the intended crime? etc.
Only if you can do so and keep Christs command:
Mat 5:43 ΒΆ Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy.
Mat 5:44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you; [/quote]
I believe I could indeed harm someone to stop him, without hating him. Just as I could lovingly rebuke someone who needs it ("faithful are the wounds of a friend...") It would be wrong to stand by while he destroyed my daughter, for instance, who was placed in my care by the Lord Himself. I would righteously defend her (unless her Daddy were there to do it) and stand against his wickedness.
Suffering for Christ's sake, however, is another issue. If I am persecuted for being a Christian, I would take it like a lamb, as Christ did.
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Post by anabean on Mar 14, 2008 9:21:21 GMT -5
QUOTE: "I believe I could indeed harm someone to stop him, without hating him."
How?
This is a Catholic doctrine...and it started with the Catholic Church and the man "Augustine" who thought he should allow the physical punishment of those outside the catholic church so they would repent. He too called it love. It was called the "Just War". All the early believers were nonresistant. It was not until Augustine the Catholic man that this changed. The Bible says recompense unto to NO man evil for evil. ROMANS 12:17 The Bible teaches if we hate our brother we are a murderer and eternal life is not in us. We might "accidently" murder someone if we try and defend ourselves. To say we can hurt someone without hating them is almost to say we can bow to an idol without worshipping it in our heart.
In the OT, animals were sacraficed...people in the church were stoned according to the law, etc. But NOW we are not to do these things.
It is difficult to justify slaying, or punching someone "in love" from the New Testament. There is not an example for it.
If we fight, we are of this world. John 18:36
However, the idea Ben had I believe is one of the best examples ever. We can lay our lives down for our friends. If someone enters my house to harm my family (I have already done the best thing I can do to protect my family...trust in God) then I will stand in the way while my family can leave. If we die, it is gain for us. The Bible says if we do not hate our own lives, we CANNOT be His disciple. See also ACTS 20:24
We do not know if we can beat the person anyhow that comes in. They could be a boxing champion turned murderer. We have no guarantee to win. Christ does not want us to resist evil period.
We have to be careful justifying this....we could eventually say as did Augustine that if we love heretics...we will try and bring them back to the church by physical punishment. This led to burnings, and tortures of all manners (in love) to get people to repent so they wouldn't "go to hell". Antichrist punishes....christians take the punishment.
-Anabean
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Post by Tammy on Mar 15, 2008 0:46:51 GMT -5
Of course, Bro. Ben said he would stand in the way of the intruder. Sorry about that, Bro. Ben! Didn't mean to tie you in with that. I do not know why people want to hurt others. I certainly do not want to hurt someone, much less kill them and send them to hell. I don't want an intruder to enter my house to begin with. Which is why I lock my doors. Not exactly, my ruffled brother. I was simply agreeing with Bro. Ben that providing for the family includes protecting them - we just see differently how to go about protecting them. Yes, we do disagree on some things. But I hope we agree on this: that our families are precious, and we ought to unselfishly do what we must in order to protect them. Sister Tammy
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Post by Brother Ben on Mar 16, 2008 13:54:53 GMT -5
Our theology is easier said than practiced. When it comes to defending ourselves and our family, we need to have peace with God about our decision. The acid test is when it really happens. I will say this to be clear, I do not think the Lord is asking us to stand there and watch as the intruder has his way with my wife and my children. If he wants them, he will have to pass by me first. Jesus said:
Luk 3:14 And the soldiers likewise demanded of him, saying, And what shall we do? And he said unto them, Do violence to no man, neither accuse any falsely; and be content with your wages.
He did not ask them to neglect their duty as a soldier, he asked them to not violate the rights of others. The word, violence, here is defined as: to shake thoroughly, to intimidate. I am not going to try to intimidate the man/woman, I am going to talk to him/her as my family leaves, hoping the Spirit of God deals with his/her heart. He can shoot us if he wants, but my family is leaving while we talk. I'll see them in Heaven.
However, I have another thing to consider, namely, how does my nonresistance affect my day-to-day relationship with others? Just like this topic and many others, when I am challenged about my theology or some idea, to what extent shall I "defend" my stand? I am not talking about compromise, but more specifically, about the treatment of my brother and my sister whom the Father purchased with the blood of His Dear Son!
I, if I am not careful, find it easy to lop the head off (speaking figuratively here,) of those who disagree with me. I used to take great pride in using the scriptures to totally anihilate those who disagreed with me, especially those who were not of the household of faith, i.e., Mormons, Jehovah's Wintesses, etc.
I have not always done well in this area, but am challenged the more I go along in my pilgrimage.
Rom 12:10 Be kindly affectioned one to another with brotherly love; in honour preferring one another;
It is hard for me to "prefer" my brother and my sister when I am in disagreement with them over an issue.
Eph 4:2 With all lowliness and meekness, with longsuffering, forbearing one another in love;
Do these verses challenge you like they do me? I hope so.
I know that we really do love one another, but this is a great place for us to "start" practicing nonresistance. As we walk with him in love and obedience, he will prepare us for the unknown that lies ahead. How shall we respond in the trial by fire when we struggle on easy street? Perhaps ya'll don't struggle with this like I do, but I just want to be honest with you. May God give me the grace to answer the evil intuder in the same way my Lord Jesus would if he were in my shoes.
Joh 10:4 And when he putteth forth his own sheep, he goeth before them, and the sheep follow him: for they know his voice.
A Sunday devotional response, Bro. Ben
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Post by anabean on Mar 17, 2008 14:16:50 GMT -5
True... I know what I am supposed to do in a situation like this....or at least I think I know....but.....will I endure without turning myself over to the flesh? I too must say....I pray for God's Grace in this manner. I am still human...but many martyrs have gone on before us...we are more than conquerors...but at the same time....I can fail....the possibility is there...yes...we must pray that we be able to handle these situaitons. Me, being the loud mouth that I am...may be the very one to fail in this area...pray that I do not. The New Testament says that a murderer does not have eternal life abiding in them. We cannot be murderers and have eternal life in us. It is impossible as says the scripture. If we accidently murder someone...I personally do not think we eternal life as saith the scriptures. Not exactly, my ruffled brother. Tammy, I kind of liked this. Even though you called me ruffled...you called me a brother. We might disagree and even reject each others understanding on some issues....but I tell you what....we still have the love of the brethren here. Praise God!
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Post by mitchell on Apr 21, 2008 20:51:35 GMT -5
My Daddy used to say, "War is hell." . . and he knew whereof he spoke. I grew up in a home where my father was a terribly shell-shocked veteran of WWII, having been in extensive combat in N. Africa, Sicily, Italy and finally, Germany. He was not saved and baptized until years later, but he still did not want to go, to have to live in a situation where either he must be killed or his fellow man must be killed. What a horrible choice! His nerves were shot from that war, he wasn't able to talk about it until he was old. He finally did tell me a few things, about trying to jerk a young recruit down off a wall at Monte Cassino before the young man was shot by a sniper - trying and failing; having his brains blown out all over him; and then his captain being critically wounded and then shot in the neck by a German officer . . . oh my, that was one thing that really stressed my Daddy. He loved his captain and was one of the boys who went back for him. (The captain survived and is still living in N.H. at the age of 89 yrs.)
How I hate war! It affects families in all sorts of stressful and hard ways. If the Lord allows me to help decide things, there will never be another war - ever into eternity.
My Daddy is a hero to me; not because of that war, but in spite of it. At the time he received his draft notice, the man he worked for (up north) was a very wealthy and influential man and didn't want Daddy to leave his furniture manufacturing job with him. Daddy said, "Let me think on it overnight." Then he came back the next morning and told the man that he thanked him for his offer, but that if he didn't go, some other boy would have to go in his place and he just couldn't live with that reality. - The reality of that war was bad enough.
We have been brainwashed about patriotism, and we must realize that we are citizens of the Kingdom of God and this world's kingdoms will become the kingdoms of our God and of His Christ. Help us Lord to escape all our errors and come out of whatever result of wrong teachings from our childhood that may still be hanging on in our minds.
It is hard to buck the popular pressures and ideas, but we must. Help us, Lord!
M.
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