The Doctrine of Unconditional Eternal Security

[way195]

Do you'all around here believe the doctrine of unconditional eternal security?

I know it is one of the beliefs of Baptists in general, but I didn't know wether the more conservative baptists observe it. I personally can't see that doctrine in the Bible and have been studying it recently. Does anyone of a good article online that explains from which scriptures this doctrine is taken?

[Brother Ben]

Wayne,
Yes, with the exception of Free-will Baptists, most Baptist would hold to unconditional eternal security. I want to treat your question with a couple of responses. First of all, that teaching would stem from a grasp of the doctrine of justification by faith. Here are a couple of verses:

Rom. 4
[1] What shall we say then that Abraham our father, as pertaining to the flesh, hath found?
[2] For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God.
[3] For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.
[4] Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.
[5] But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
[6] Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,
[7] Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered.
[8] Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.


Justification is based solely on the merits of Christ. Works, (the works of the Law,) have no merit and the ungodly man, who trusts in the finished works of Christ on Calvary, is imputed with righteousness.

Eph. 2
[8] For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
[9] Not of works, lest any man should boast.

Again, just restating, there is no merit in works of the Law for righteousness.

John 5
[24] Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

Notice, HATH, everlasting life. Not is going to to have, but hath, (has) present tense. We have passed from death (spiritually,) to life.

John 10
[28] And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
[29] My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.

We are given everlasting life. This is not a quality, but a quantity. Not that new life in Christ does not have a quality, but this verse is speaking quantitatively. Also, no man is able to pluck them out of Jesus or the Father's hand. No man is NO MAN. If a guilty sinner can do NO WORKS in order to become justified in the site of a holy God, no man is able to maintain that same salvation. It is obtained and maintained on the merits of Christ alone.

Now, having said that, (to answer your question,) I want to make clear some important points. I do not believe true salvation doctrine is either Calvinistic, (Reformed,) or Arminian, (also Reformed,) but is a balanced doctrine of Bible truth.

I believe the phrase, "Unconditional Eternal Security," is misleading. I have seen men take that thought and "go to seed" with it. True, our salvation is by grace through faith and not based on works, but a salvation that saves is a salvation that has the power to change. Paul said:

Gal. 6
[15] For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth anything, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature.

Neither the keeping of the law, or reveling in liberty, make available to us anything good, (profitable,) but THE NEW CREATURE. God did not retread us like an old semi truck tire, no, he made available to us the new creature in Christ.

2 Cor. 5
[17] Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

This is either true or false. If it is true, (AND IT IS!) then we should see some things in a believer unlike what he was before. If I plant apple seeds, it should grow and apple tree, that produces apples. This if I have placed saving faith in Christ, and a new creature is available to me, I should see the fruit of the Spirit. Amen!

So, the better phrase is Conditional Eternal Security. The conditions are, that we have become followers of Christ. Jesus said:

John 10
[27] My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:

If someone is an authentic sheep, then "followship" should be the expected outcome. If someone is not following, then they need to decide whether they are backslid and need to repent, or have never truly placed genuine faith in Christ.

The only problem I have with "falling away" from genuine salvation is that some make salvation like an interstate highway on which they enter and exit, enter and exit. This does not sound like new creature salvation, but works, merit, failure, trying harder, renewal, falling away, trying again, etc. Furthermore, if Heb. 6 be right, they have fall away cannot renew repentance and are forever separated from God.

More later.

[Guadalupe]

Aug 20, 2012 8:52:33 GMT -5 Brother Ben said:

2 Cor. 5
[17] Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

This is either true or false. If it is true, (AND IT IS!) then we should see some things in a believer unlike what he was before. If I plant apple seeds, it should grow and apple tree, that produces apples. This if I have placed saving faith in Christ, and a new creature is available to me, I should see the fruit of the Spirit. Amen!

So, the better phrase is Conditional Eternal Security. The conditions are, that we have become followers of Christ. Jesus said:

John 10
[27] My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:

If someone is an authentic sheep, then "followship" should be the expected outcome. If someone is not following, then they need to decide whether they are backslid and need to repent, or have never truly placed genuine faith in Christ.

The only problem I have with "falling away" from genuine salvation is that some make salvation like an interstate highway on which they enter and exit, enter and exit. This does not sound like new creature salvation, but works, merit, failure, trying harder, renewal, falling away, trying again, etc. Furthermore, if Heb. 6 be right, they have fall away cannot renew repentance and are forever separated from God.

Well said. Here are some more to back up the Conditional Eternal Security doctrine:
Matthew 7 - all of it but a good summation is:
21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

Also the parable of the sower and the seed in Matthew 13. Once we receive our salvation by the grace of God and become a new man, then we as new soil must grow that seed of God's grace and word into Godly fruit of words and deeds in our lives. It we do not abandon the rocks and thorns of of our old sinful lives, we will not bear fruit.

Jesus compared sin to weeds and rocks in a garden. They ruin a harvest of good fruit. Once saved we need to walk away from old temptations and our old lives and its sins. We ask God for the grace and strength to do so because our old lives are used by satan to trap us back into a barren and unsaved life.

[way195]

Thanks for the replies. Like you said the term 'Unconditional Eternal Security' can be misleading. Many people today hold that up so far as to say that once a person is truely born again it doesn'y matter at all what the remainder of his life is like - they just automatically got to heaven. Some today are saying that according to this docrine a murderer or homosexual who was been truely born again will go to heaven when he dies. This is false - according to the Bible!

Sorry I don't have my Bible here no to point out some verses concerning this, but I will see if I can follow up later. I just listened to a sermon by Bro. David Cooper last week concerning the falsehood of this doctrine that I might post for you later.

[Brother Ben]

We met David and his family when we went to Ephrata for Summer Revivals in 03. He seemed like a nice brother. The verse Sister Guadalupe posted:

Matt. 7
21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

...is a good one. Old time Baptists did not believe in the corrupted and permissive doctrines the modern church has devised, even though they did believe in eternal security. What has happened, and I've heard this with my own ears, is in order to prop up (which the DO NOT have to do,) the Doctrine of Justification by faith alone, they "go to seed" with conclusions like this:

"If Hitler said THE PRAYER when he was young then he went to heaven when he died because salvation is NOT BY WORKS."

I believe this kind of thinking is what Peter meant when he said:

2 Peter 3
[16] As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, [or wrestle out of the hands of God, insert mine] as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.

Again, if someone has truly been justified, God is going to become a dynamic in their being and start working out their salvation. It is natural, like the apple tree illustration above. He did to me.

Now, there are cases hard to judge and we have to leave them in the hands of the Lord. If someone dies when they have sinned willfully, do they go to hell? It might seem natural to say, "Yes," but I do not think that is fair or safe. I heard a great man of God ask one time, " How far do you have to run to run out from underneath the saving grace of God?" You nor I have that answer so we must leave such judgement to God. We can surmise perhaps So-in-so was not saved because his life did not bear fruit, (that we saw,) but we do not know the deep inner-working and what was going on when they died. It could be this:

1 John 5
[16] If any man see his brother sin a sin which is not unto death, he shall ask, and he shall give him life for them that sin not unto death. There is a sin unto death: I do not say that he shall pray for it.

I believe there can be a case for a believer, who is so grieving God, he dies as a result of God taking him/her home as to stop their damaging the testimony of Christ and his people on Earth.

This doctrine is 100 miles deep and 100 miles wide, if one wants to swim it, and we must conclude that God has some answers that we do not know. Thus, we must focus on the important thing, "Where do I stand with the Lord? Am I making my calling and election sure?"

[Guadalupe]

On this topic here are more good verses
2 Peter this time from chapter 2:
20 For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.

21 For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.

22 But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.

This verse is echoing and repeating Proverbs 26 thus showing the continuity and completeness of the Bible:

10 The great God that formed all things both rewardeth the fool, and rewardeth transgressors.

11 As a dog returneth to his vomit, so a fool returneth to his folly.

12 Seest thou a man wise in his own conceit? there is more hope of a fool than of him.

All throughout the Bible the message is the same: Love God, accept God's grace and salvation, turn away from sin, carry the message of salvation to others.

...Thus, we must focus on the important thing, "Where do I stand with the Lord? Am I making my calling and election sure?"

Amen, Bro. Ben. My husband likes to use a colloquial quote when discussing one's personal walk: "Tend to your own rat killing."--John Wayne.

[way195]

Here is the message by David Cooper that I referred to earlier.

www.ephrataministries.org/audio/3716.mp3

[Guadalupe]

Interesting website. I have a question about their confession and practice.

Do they believe in conditional eternal security as Bro. Ben describes it or do they have another understanding? Do they believe that a man can walk away and fall out of fellowship with God thereby throw away his salvation?

Here is the specific part of their confession I am referring to from www.ephrataministries.org/confession.a5w

Man must respond with repentance (a change of heart) toward God and with faith (a heart attitude of belief) in our Lord Jesus Christ. Believing is a present, continuous act of the will.

[way195]

[quote author=guadalup Do they believe that a man can walk away and fall out of fellowship with God thereby throw away his salvation?

[/quote]

Yes, they do. Once again, I would encourage you to listen to the sermon I linked above; that will give you a little better idea what they believe according to the Word of God.

Hebrews 3:12 Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God. 3:13 But exhort one another daily, while it is called To day; lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin.

Galatians 5:4 Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace

According to these verses, is it possible for a born again believer to fall away? Yes, unless you have a better explaination.

I Cor 6:9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God?

Born-again christian or not, sin cannot enter heaven! Being a christian DOESN'T give us liberty to sin...Romans 6

Brethren, if any of you do err from the truth, and one convert him; Let him know, that he who converts the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins. James 5:19 and 20.

Isn't this verse implying that a brother that has fallen away can be restored to the faith?

These are just a few off-the-top verses that I came across, but there are many more in the Bible concerning this. There are still other passages in the Bible that I'm still trying to figure out(like Hebrew 6:4-6)

[Guadalupe]

Thank you, this extract helps. For a variety of cybertechnical reasons, we are unable to download pdfs or mp3s reliably. Most likely the wi-fi is partially to blame, another is an aging computer.

Is there a written form of this sermon?

Re James 5 verses 19-20
Yes we agree that is the correct interpretation. We all should make an effort to bring back the fallen and wayward. Force and coercion are ineffectual. Prayer for the brother and showing the mercy, love and gentleness of God toward the wayward is key to helping the wayward brother so that he can of his own free will choose to repent and once again walk in fellowship with God. There are some who refuse the approaches and choose to remain fallen away thus throwing away their salvation. This too is dealt with in the Bible and how we are to act on such occasions.

The original thread question dealing with salvation as either assured or conditional was the main topic so perhaps you can start another thread on the necessity of seeking to restore a brother and the best attitudes to use in one's efforts with the brother, all supported by Bible verses of course.

Aug 22, 2012 5:42:16 GMT -5 way195 said:

[quote author=guadalup Do they believe that a man can walk away and fall out of fellowship with God thereby throw away his salvation?

Yes, they do. Once again, I would encourage you to listen to the sermon I linked above; that will give you a little better idea what they believe according to the Word of God.

Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God. 3:13 But exhort one another daily, while it is called To day; lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin.

Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace

According to these verses, is it possible for a born again believer to fall away? Yes, unless you have a better explaination.

Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God?

Born-again christian or not, sin cannot enter heaven! Being a christian DOESN'T give us liberty to sin...Romans 6

Brethren, if any of you do err from the truth, and one convert him; Let him know, that he who converts the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins. James 5:19 and 20.

Isn't this verse implying that a brother that has fallen away can be restored to the faith?

These are just a few off-the-top verses that I came across, but there are many more in the Bible concerning this. There are still other passages in the Bible that I'm still trying to figure out(like ) [/quote]

[Brother Ben]

Aug 22, 2012 5:42:16 GMT -5 way195 said:

[quote author="@guadalup Do they believe that a man can walk away and fall out of fellowship with God thereby throw away his salvation?

Yes, they do. Once again, I would encourage you to listen to the sermon I linked above; that will give you a little better idea what they believe according to the Word of God.

Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God. 3:13 But exhort one another daily, while it is called To day; lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin.[/quote]

To explain this verse one must take the message IN context. What is the name of this epistle? The Epistle to the Hebrews. Who is it to? The Hebrew people both saved and not yet saved. Many make the error of thinking this epistle is a general epistle to the church and it IS NOT. Notice the pronouns:

Heb. 1
[1] God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,
[2] Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;

Heb. 2
[1] Therefore we ought to give the more earnest heed to the things which we have heard, lest at any time we should let them slip.
[2] For if the word spoken by angels was stedfast, and every transgression and disobedience received a just recompence of reward;
[3] How shall we escape, if we neglect so great salvation; which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed unto us by them that heard him;

The Hebrew people were spoken to in times past by God through the prophets. When God could send no greater prophet he sent his Son. If they would not hear him they were losing their last chance at redemption. There was NO OTHER PLAN. They could not escape if they neglected it.

So let's look at your verse again:

Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God. 3:13 But exhort one another daily, while it is called To day; lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin.

Any of which brethren be hardened? Hebrew brethren, just like their forefathers spoken of in the rest of Heb. 3 and 4 read it. It's about them rejecting God in the wilderness through the sin of unbelief.

Heb. 3
[8] Harden not your hearts, as in the provocation, in the day of temptation in the wilderness:

[17] But with whom was he grieved forty years? was it not with them that had sinned, whose carcases fell in the wilderness?
[18] And to whom sware he that they should not enter into his rest, but to them that believed not?
[19] So we see that they could not enter in because of unbelief.

It was not present continuous faith they lacked, it was faith at all. In our modern vernacular, they were not saved. Why? Because they refused to believe the provision God had made for them, i.e., entering the promised land. Now God had made a new provision, entering the salvation relationship Jesus had made through is "much better sacrifice" on the cross.

Heb. 9
[20] Saying, This is the blood of the testament which God hath enjoined unto you.
[21] Moreover he sprinkled with blood both the tabernacle, and all the vessels of the ministry.
[22] And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission.
[23] It was therefore necessary that the patterns of things in the heavens should be purified with these; but the heavenly things themselves with better sacrifices than these.

Aug 22, 2012 5:42:16 GMT -5 way195" said:

Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace

[/i]

According to these verses, is it possible for a born again believer to fall away? Yes, unless you have a better explaination.[/quote]

Now brother, you know the English language, I assume. Look at that verse and tell me what the warning is.

It is a warning to not fall under the false teaching of the Judaizers who were trying to put the Galatian church back under the law WHICH CANNOT SAVE, thus plunging the church into darkness, falling away FROM THE MESSAGE OF GRACE, which is the only way to be saved.

If you read that chapter and be VERY CAREFUL to note the context you will see it has NOTHING to do with falling away from personal salvation, but the corruption of the true gospel by the Judaizers.

Aug 22, 2012 5:42:16 GMT -5 way195 said:

Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God?

Born-again christian or not, sin cannot enter heaven! Being a christian DOESN'T give us liberty to sin...Romans 6

Let's read the very next thing Paul said, and he will explain what that verse is teaching.

[11] And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.

Paul is not talking about "unrighteous" Christians, but unsaved sinners. "Such WERE (past tense) some of you..." but we have been washed, sanctified, and justified by Jesus AND by the Spirit. Not only by Jesus, justification, the judicial act whereby God declares us forgiven and imputed with Christ's righteousness, but sanctified, by the indwelling spirit who CANNOT sin, and leads us who are his to repent of sin.

Aug 22, 2012 5:42:16 GMT -5 way195 said:

Brethren, if any of you do err from the truth, and one convert him; Let him know, that he who converts the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins. and 20.

Isn't this verse implying that a brother that has fallen away can be restored to the faith?

Yes, but only in the context of fallen from a clean, obedient walk, to a restored righteous walk. You see, your understanding of the phrase "fallen away" is based on the erroneous interpretation you had of above. Galatians is a warning of Judaizers who put people under the yoke of law keeping (good works,) in order to attain righteousness. But true righteousness is never attained through our merits, deed, or continued act of believing, but through saving faith in the finished work of Christ on the cross of Calvary.

2 Peter 1
[1] Simon Peter, a servant and an apostle of Jesus Christ, to them that have obtained like precious faith with us through the righteousness of God and our Saviour Jesus Christ:

If I could not do anything in order to "obtain" my salvation, what can I do to eliminate it? I did not give it to myself, I do not hold it in my hands, I cannot enhance it one iota. It is perfect salvation. It cost the Father the blood of his only begotten Son.

Aug 22, 2012 5:42:16 GMT -5 way195 said:

These are just a few off-the-top verses that I came across, but there are many more in the Bible concerning this. There are still other passages in the Bible that I'm still trying to figure out(like )

Understanding that the is THE EPISTLE TO THE HEBREWS, let's examine this passage.

Heb. 6
[4] For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
[5] And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
[6] If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

If the Hebrew people, who were spoken of in times past by the prophets, but in the last effort, have been spoken to by the Son, and given a BETTER covenant, the blood of Jesus, and have found the way to true salvation; if they have tasted of this GREAT GIFT, and some of them have even become partakers by saving faith; if they fall away from this NEW AND LIVING WAY, it is impossible to renew them again unto repentance because they will be putting Christ to an open shame, trampling under foot the blood of the new covenant.

Try to think about these options to their stand.

[way195]

Now brother, you know the English language, I assume. Look at that verse and tell me what the warning is.

It is a warning to not fall under the false teaching of the Judaizers who were trying to put the Galatian church back under the law WHICH CANNOT SAVE, thus plunging the church into darkness, falling away FROM THE MESSAGE OF GRACE, which is the only way to be saved.

If you read that chapter and be VERY CAREFUL to note the context you will see it has NOTHING to do with falling away from personal salvation, but the corruption of the true gospel by the Judaizers.

Brother Ben, how can this verse have nothing to do with falling away from salvation? To fall from salvation by grace back to the law is to lose ones salvation, is it not? Thus, this verse is clearly implying that it IS possible to lose our personal salvation.

These are only a few of the verses that imply this; I will post more later.

[Brother Ben]

The only problem I have with that is it is not consistent with the theme of the epistle to the galatians. It is a warning for the Galatian church to not fall under, or return to the law. If they do so, Paul already alluded to this:

"I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness [come] by the law, then Christ is dead in vain. " Gal. 2:21

To again teach or go back to teaching the Law in order to establish righteousness frustrates the saving grace of God. The phrase "ye are fallen from grace," is directly tied to the phrase in the first part of the verse, "Christ is become of no effect unto you. . . "

It is not a matter of losing one's salvation, but making it ineffective because Law frustrates or stands contrary to the core message of salvation, that being, that it comes by grace through faith and not by the works of the law.

Contextually, it does not fit. Paul is not talking about losing one's salvation, but warning to not fall under the bewitching message of the Judaizers.

"O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you?

Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh? " Gal. 3:1,3

You see? He is not warning about losing salvation, but the vanity of thinking one can "perfect" their salvation by once again returning to the works of the Law.

[way195]

Here is another collection of verses from the Bible that denote that a christian can fall away and lose his personal salvation. I don't want to just argue my point, but rather take a close look at the scriptures and come to a clearer understanding of this subject if posssible. Like Brother Ben stated, this subject is very broad, but I think it is good to take a Biblical look at the basis of this doctrine.

Here are a few verses from the OT that show clearly what God's conditions were for his people.
“And the Lord said unto Moses, Whosoever hath sinned against me, him will I blot out of my book.”

“If ye forsake the Lord, and serve strange gods, then he will turn and do you hurt, and consume you, after that he hath done you good.”

“And thou, Solomon my son, know thou the God of thy father, and serve him with a perfect heart and with a willing mind: for the Lord searcheth all hearts, and understandeth all the imaginations of the thoughts: if thou seek him, he will be found of thee; but if thou forsake him, he will cast thee off for ever.”
Ezekial 33:13 “When I shall say to the righteous, that he shall surely live; if he trust to his own righteousness, and commit iniquity, all his righteousnesses shall not be remembered; but for his iniquity that he hath committed, he shall die for it.”

Certainly the children of Israel in the Old Testament had no promise of 'Unconditional Eternal Security' whatsoever. On the contrary, it was 'conditional eternal security'; dependent upon their obedience to God. Today we are not under the law, but under grace; however, you will find the that same thing in the NT as well. I'll list these passages in chronological order for convenience.

“For whosoever shall do the will of my Father which is in heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother.”
What about those who don't do the will of God?

“I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman. Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit. Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you. Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me. I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing. If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.”

Can we abide somewhere where we have not been? This is refering to a christian that has been graffed into the vine who, later gave up and fell away. Hell fire is the destiny of this christian who has not continued to abide in the vine.

“Salt is good: but if the salt have lost its savour, wherewith shall it be seasoned? It is it is neither fit for the land, nor yet for the dunghill; but men cast it out. He that hath ears to hear, let him hear.”
Can we as christians lose our savour if we don't have any? No. Because the salt has lost its savour it is cast out ...where? Heaven, no!

“For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.”

“Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand; By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.”

Philipians 3:13-14 “Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended: but this one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before, I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus.”

Paul didn't consider himself to have achieved yet, but he pressed toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God. This doesn't sound like unconditional eternal security.

“Fight the good fight of faith, lay hold on eternal life, whereunto thou art also called, and hast professed a good profession before many witnesses.”

“Therefore we ought to give the more earnest heed to the things which we have heard, lest at any time we should let them slip.”

“But Christ as a son over his own house; whose house are we, if we hold fast the confidence and the rejoicing of the hope firm unto the end.”

“Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him. But we are not of them which draw back unto perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul.”

“Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall: For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.”

“And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his comandments.”

Notice the 'if'

Revelations 2:5 “Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent.”

Now, I know this could look like a rather lopsided post. I certainly do believe in the salvation through the grace of God alone, but according to the Bible there is also a concept of abiding that is included in the package. At salvation we do not get a one-way ticket to heaven, but an ongoing life of mortifying the deeds of the flesh and striving by the grace of God to walk in the narrow way. We do not know at what point a true believer loses his salvation, but I hope these verses will help us to consider seriously how our conduct today can effect our eternal destination. I do believe that the grace and mercy of God is sufficient at all times to those who are earnestly hungering and thirsting after righteousness when they do sin, but if it becomes an ongoing sin, the eternal destiny will at some point change.

[Brother Ben]

Please search and post us a N.T. verse about someone who lost their salvation. Surely it is not arbitrary. Why wouldn't there be a clear case?